Too embarrased to speak until now, I fess up that may wife and I paddle a Sealution II standard and XL -- apparently the Chevrolets of kayaking. We are new to kayaking but have at least one every other kind of small craft made, including inflatable dinghy (3), sailing dinghy, rowing shell (5), rowboat, canoe (2), windsurfer, as well as a larger stink pot and sloop. I bought new production because WS claims to have solved its oilcanning problems in 1997 with a revised roto schedule. Also, if we took to the sport and wanted to move to some rocket with a sub-20" beam, I figured we could sell the Sealutions easily because they are one of the most popular starting boats. Moreover, we have learned from rowing that although a 11" beam racing shell is fastest in flat water, there are many times when a fat, stubby rec shell is more fun and a lot safer. We got them without rudders because we store them in a rack on a semi-private beach and wanted to minimize opportunities for vandalism. I bought dacron covers for them to protect from UV damage. Anyway, we have been out a few times this winter in them and have come to believe that their prosaic reputation is undeserved. They move easily and quickly, turn well and have nice lines. Also, they can hold huge amounts of gear. Ken Cooperstein *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>PaddleWise Wednesday, February 18 1998 Volume 01 : Number 025 (snip)> >Date: Tue, 17 Feb 1998 23:17:17 -0800 >From: Keith Kaste <kkaste_at_slip.net> >Subject: [Paddlewise] my boat(s) > >This is potentially a great thread. I am keeping a copy of everyone's >post who responds to the "what do you paddle" request. I will compile a >summary of all these responses and publish it back to the list for >everyone. So far, though, there have only been 16 responses. There >must be more than 16 subscribers out there with boats. Come on you >Guillemot and Laughing Loon owners, come on you rotomold owners, and >Coaster owners. Let's hear it. Even if you rent only, post an email >describing which boat(s) you like the most. > OK, delurking temporarily to rhapsodize about my boat. I paddle an Arluk 1.8, white and black. 18 feet 2 inches long, and 21 inch beam, I think - I lost the specs sheet. I put it up on Thule racks on my Civic. This will be my fifth summer paddling this boat. I tried many different boats before I bought this one. I bought it because although it scared me at first (and sometimes still does) it fit me like part of my own body, and it is the most beautiful boat sculpture I have ever seen, except may be the Looksha. It has a small cockpit, a rudder, bulkheads, tie down oval hatch covers. It paddles best when loaded for a trip and is pretty bouncy otherwise. I should have been paying more attention obviously to the ballast thread! I have used gallon containers of water jammed in close to the cockpit in the fore and aft hatches. Better than nothing if it's not flat water. I still can't roll it but I think that's because I am right handed but have my paddle feathered typically left handed, and I have no idea what I'm doing now once I get upside down, after 5 lessons in a lake and pools, all slightly different. But that's another story. I will be doing some cockpit modifications this summer. Diane Victoria, BC *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
i referred to something like this, and found it... From: odinkind To: nyckayaker <nyckayaker_at_manatee.envirolink.org> Subject: small boat survey I thought it might be fun to do a little research project here on NYCKayaker and invite subscribers to participate. The goal is to determine what is the "perfect boat" and "why". Data collection is limited to hand launch vessels of any mode propulsion. So, here's the deal, - below you will find a series of questions. Since this is my big idea I will start it off. Let's see where it leads. An open ended research project. Questions: 1. How long have you been paddling? 2. Predominate paddling waters? (white, coastal, river, lakes, etc.) 3. Sequentially list all boats owned; of those owned, did you keep it or sell it. 4. Reference above - what were your particular likes or dislikes for each boat? 5. What is your "favorite boat" and why? why not? Craig's answers 1. 9 years 2. coastal, tidal river 3. a. feathercraft k-1 - single touring folder - stolen b. Klepper Aerius II - frame good, hull bad - keeper c. plastic - Pyranna hybrid whitewater boat - sold d. plastic "Sea Lion" - sold e. Klepper aerius I - sold f. double sit on top - sold g. glass - Dirigo - a keeper h. plastic Prijon Yukon Tour - a keeper i. prijon seayak - sold 4. a. feathercraft k-1 - nice boat, loved it but it was stolen. a pain to put together, take apart, etc, etc....stable, fast, comfortable - a would have been a keeper b. double klepper - the old standby - a good frame but $2000 price for replacement skin is a bit much. stable, carry tons of gear, multiuse (paddling, sailing, etc.), the seating is the pits. c. pyranna - stable, easy to paddle, detachable skeg a big bonus. kept it for years and used only in the pinebarrens - made my legs go to sleep though. d. plastic sealion - a fast boat, low maintenance??, foam bulkheads leaked badly and repeatedly. not a stable boat at all in high seas. sold e. single klepper - stable, portable, so so speed. high cost are negatives. the seats are the pitts and hurt my back a lot. got tired of putting together, take apart, put together, take apart, etc, etc, etc.......sold f. double sit on top - fun boat, very stable but a pig to paddle by myself. bought to be a summer boat to take dog out with me. bad idea - sold. g. Dirigo 17 - my baby - a fast, very stable glass boat. the seats are hard though and again puts my legs to sleep without special padding. can pack a ton of gear for serious touring. easy to get in and out of - only negative is seat - a definite keeper for me. h. prijon yukon tour - a keeper - my all around play boat, not to worry about the bottom, rocks, etc. very stable, very maneuverable, very comfortable seating (A+), speedy, needs rudder due to excessive yaw with high winds and currents. i. prijon seayak - fast low maintenance boat, very comfortable, good storage - a bit unstable in bad conditions. 5. my dirigo is the most favorite, followed closely by the yukon tour. both are stable platforms, both handle seas well, both are well built and sturdy. ----- End Included Message ----- >> >> I thought it might be fun to do a little research project here on >> NYCKayaker and invite subscribers to participate. >> >> The goal is to determine what is the "perfect boat" and "why". Data >> collection is limited to hand launch vessels of any mode propulsion. >> >> So, here's the deal, - below you will find a series of questions. Since >> this is my big idea I will start it off. Let's see where it leads. An >> open ended research project. >> >> Questions: >> >> 1. How long have you been paddling? about 10 years. [30 if you want to include a weeks lessons at summer camp!!] American Canoe Association certified Whitewater Tandem Canoe instructor since 1992, only been sea kayaking 3 years now. we have a bounty of beautiful lakes in colorado, as well as ample locations for moving and for whitewater paddling. my web page has more whitewater photos than flat/moving, but that's only because i knew where those pictures were, while i was playing with the scanner!! >> 2. Predominate paddling waters? (white, coastal, river, lakes, etc.) rivers 70% [class A/B/C/I 60%, class II 30%, class III 10%] lakes 30% >> 3. Sequentially list all boats owned; >> of those owned, did you keep it or >> sell it. 1. we-no-nah spirit II [glass 17' tandem "all purpose" canoe] sold 2. grumann canoe [17' aluminum tandem] sold (but spends lots of time here) 3. perception HD-1 [14' whitewater play boat] sold 4. we-no-nah rendezvous [my baby] [15'8" solo glass/kevlar composite downriver touring canoe] a real keeper 5. we-no-nah cascade [the barge] [17'9" glass tandem downriver touring canoe] another keeper 6. dagger caper [14'4" whitewater play boat] sold [sniff ;-( sniff] 7. aquaterra spectrum [14'4" sea kayak] keeper 8. prijon yukon expedition [14'4" sea kayak] keeper 9. eurokayak traveller [14' intro level sea kayak for daughter] >> 4. Reference above - what were your particular likes or dislikes for >> each boat? 1. we-no-nah spirit II [glass 17' tandem "all purpose" canoe] -- excellent boat, fastest boat i've ever owned... but i got married, and she had three kids, so we sold this, and bought the cascade [#5] plus: fast, 2" of rocker allowed good turning ability. minus: with any "all purpose" you sacrifice a little of everything but mostly, very wet on the river, due to narrow entry line. 2. we-no-nah rendezvous [my baby] [15'8" solo glass/kevlar composite downriver touring canoe] -- the best solo boat i've had for general paddling. very efficient, lots of volume for more gear than i should ever have. toured the BWCA with it. my dad has one, mom had one, an old girlfriend bought one... popular!! when i ordered it from the factory, i had several changes made, and enjoyed working with everyone at the factory that i had to deal with. plus: stiff hull, 2" rocker, large volume minus: at 15'8" it isn't a playboat ;-) 3. grumann canoe [17' aluminum tandem] -- we borrow it back to use for the river clean up project, and to loan to friends who are "boatless" poor folks. plus: indestructable minus: low performance!! 4. perception HD-1 [14' whitewater play boat] -- perception's 1st plastic ww solo. fully round bottom, all the secondary "stability" you'd ever need ;-) it was as stable on it's side as rightside up. took a while to paddle it well [sort of!!] plus: plastic, you could beat it up!! really turned. minus: NO primary stability, was great in it's time [20 years ago!!] 5. we-no-nah cascade [the barge] [17'9" glass tandem downriver touring canoe] -- but i got married, and she had three kids, so we sold #1, and bought the cascade. we love it. i know others with this same boat that run class III with this same model, and eventually, we will too. we are really tourists, not playboaters, but occasionally big rapids do come up. this boat will handle it!! the biggest difference between this and the cascade, besides 9" overall length, is the entry line is more blunt, less efficient, but climbs the waves instead of cutting through, so is MUCH dryer than the spirit. same amount of rocker (2"), so blindfolded, i'd have a hard time telling the difference between the two. plus: huge, stiff hull, more efficient than plastic, holds more than many cars!! [we drove 300 miles with the boat on the roof of a vw bug, and when we got to the put in and loaded the boat, it was only 2/3 full, but the car was packed to the ceiling, and the trunk stuffed full!! minus: not good on tight, technical water 6. dagger caper [14'4" whitewater play boat] -- best playboat i've had, solo, great tandem [see the piture of it on my website ;-) --- the grin is because you won't really see the boat!! while the run was really class II, we headed for the biggest waves in the middle, quite class III, the normal flow on that run is 500cfs, this picture was taken at 2850cfs!! soft chines, so "catching an edge" isn't a problem for beginners, plenty of rocker for advanced boaters. i know many running this model on class IV+ water. due to handicaps, i had to sell it, but i would have kept if it was at all possible. [can't kneel any more] plus: short tandem, turned on a dime, dry when paddled right ;-) minus: BIG solo [of course i'm 6'0" and 200#s (1.8m 90Kg)] not a high capacity boat... one friend and i can paddle it in class III without taking on a cup of water (he's built like a rail), but another friend, who is my size+, and i can't paddle it together, without sinking it ;-( 7. aquaterra spectrum [14'4" sea kayak] -- great "all purpose" sea kayak. doesn't do anyone thing well; it's slower than most all glass boats; it's stable as all get out; while heeled on its side, it turns well enough to run some healthy class II water; this was my first sea kayak, and i got a great deal on it used. i save it for my "lake" boat, or a loaner. it was fun on chatfield reservoir last saturday in the big swells during the 15-45mph winds we had!! when i did my original research, it was a toss up between this and the prijon yukon expedition!! now i have both!! plus: can run rivers, and moderately efficient [for a plastic boat] minus: too short to have any terminal velocity, can't keep up with most glass boats. VERY wet in class II water ;-) 8. prijon yukon expedition [14'4" sea kayak] -- another great "all purpose" sea kayak. doesn't do anyone thing well either; it's slower than most all glass boats; it doesn't have the initial stability the spectrum [#7] has, but better secondary stability; it turns well enough to run some healthy class III water, so i've been told, but it did outperform the spectrum on class II without a doubt. again, my interest is touring, although i like the whitewater as well. this is/will be my river play boat. there are quite a number of them in the area, and i had the chance to watch how it did perform out on chatfield reservoir last saturday in the big swells during the 15-45mph winds we had! it is feels faster than the spectrum in a straight line, but it intiates a turn well, and doesn't track as well. surprising, considering the dimensions are almost the same [on paper]. plus: very maneuverable, fun to play in. minus: too short to have any terminal velocity, can't keep up with most glass boats. hence my decision to use this on rivers. needs a rudder for lake paddling (never used a rudder in the same length canoe, but the "J" stroke is a b***h with a kayak paddle ;-) >> 5. What is your "favorite boat" and why? why not? >> on tour[solo]: class II or less #2 we-no-nah rendezvous [my baby] why: fastest solo in my stable (glass/kevlar) also largest payload on tour[solo]: class III or more #8 prijon yukon expedition why: whitewater play/touring boat (plastic) to play[solo]: moving water #8 prijon yukon expedition why: most rocker in my stable to play[solo]: lakes #7 aquaterra spectrum why: fastest sea kayak. switched to kayak from canoe to avoid fighting the wind as much as the canoe. lowest profile. anything tandem: #5 we-no-nah cascade [the barge] why: only tandem.... but chose to keep this over the caper #6 because of it's efficiency, and payload. also more stable, but that was secondary!! more versatile. i'd add more ... but i think this is more than enough!! mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/cpr [Colorado Paddlers' Resource] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmskc [Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club] http://www.diac.com/~zen/rmcc [Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page] http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark [personal] -- Fortune: Now I lay me down to sleep I pray the double lock will keep; May no brick through the window break, And, no one rob me till I awake. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On or about 2/19/98 3:06 PM, Bearss, Steve said the following: >I will say this and then go back to lurking: I am not going to mention >the generic Royalex boat I paddle in whitewater and whatever other water >I can find. I am extremely jealous of all the boats everyone has >managed to accumulate and paddle! What am I doing wrong in life? I >know cost is not important but I have grown accustomed to eating and >sleeping indoors(some of the time). How do you all do it? I know now >my life has been a failure! Not when I read of all the boats that >everyone has. Listening to all the paddling time others seem to find >has been impressive; this is even more so. I can address this...basically it took the combined incomes of me *and* my girlfriend over a full year to buy our Nootka. We bought from Ken Fink of Poseidon Kayaks and he ordered the boat for us and we paid him over the course of the winter while we waited for the boat to arrive. Then, a year later, we did the same thing with the Arluk. There's no way we could have paid the whole price up front....and he had very good prices. I too am amazed at the wonderful assortment of high-end boats people paddle. Here on the east coast the assortment seems a tad reduced...but there could be any number of reasons for that. The cost of living in sunny manhattan could be a factor ;-) -jspeer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
> On or about 2/19/98 3:06 PM, Bearss, Steve said the following: > > >I will say this and then go back to lurking: I am not going to mention > >the generic Royalex boat I paddle in whitewater and whatever other water > >I can find. I am extremely jealous of all the boats everyone has > >managed to accumulate and paddle! I was 33 before I bought my first boat, a 17' Oscoda cano that's sitting on sawhorses behind the garage as we speak. I was 42 before I bought my first kayak. I'll be 44 in a couple of weeks. Live long enough and you'll be able to afford the boat you want ;-) ---------------------------------------- Michael J Edelman mje_at_mich.com http://www.mich.com/~mje http://www.mich.com/~mje/kayak.html http://www.mich.com/~mje/scope.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Jeremy Speer wrote: > I too am amazed at the wonderful assortment of high-end boats people > paddle. Here on the east coast the assortment seems a tad reduced...but > there could be any number of reasons for that. The cost of living in > sunny manhattan could be a factor ;-) Think used.... Of the last 7 boats we bought 4 were used and I built the fifth. kirk (in new england) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
> I too am amazed at the wonderful assortment of high-end boats people > paddle. Here on the east coast the assortment seems a tad reduced...but > there could be any number of reasons for that. The cost of living in > sunny manhattan could be a factor ;-) All mine were bought used --total spent was $1150 - I found them all from prowling every reference on kayaking i could find on the web. I probably have another $400 in goodies --but still bein the "Frugal Kayaker"--my Scotts blood is showing !!! Safe Passage.....Steve *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
>I will say this and then go back to lurking: I am not going to mention >the generic Royalex boat I paddle in whitewater and whatever other water >I can find. I am extremely jealous of all the boats everyone has >managed to accumulate and paddle! What am I doing wrong in life? I >know cost is not important but I have grown accustomed to eating and >sleeping indoors(some of the time). How do you all do it? I know now >my life has been a failure! Not when I read of all the boats that >everyone has. Listening to all the paddling time others seem to find >has been impressive; this is even more so. > This is possibly the most dangerous aspect of sea kayaking for me - trying to justify another new boat to my wife :-) Scott So.Cal. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net ***************************************************************************
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