I just finished the first prototype of a new paddlefloat I have designed, and now I am about to get in the water and test all the things that can be done with it. Here is my test plan. 1- Attach it to a blade and do a reentry and roll with it. 2- Attach it to a blade while upside down without getting out of the kayak. That might include putting the float under the paddlers neck to take a few breaths. 3- While in the kayak, lay on the water holding the paddlefloat behind the neck. Watch the seagulls and take a nap. 4- Roll with the paddlefloat alone, no paddle. 5- Open the paddlefloat in two and use it as extra flotation while swiming. See whether one can fall asleep with the head comfortable out of the water. 6- Put the float on one blade, the paddle perpendicular to the boat and going under the deck lines, and stand on the cockpit with one foot on the paddle shaft closer to the float. That I saw yesterday on the video "Amphibious Man" that John Heath distributes, where the qajaq champion of Greenland uses that to relieve himself. I find that techinque very useful to look for people or check the shoreline with binoculars. This paddle float is solid and consists of two pieces that folded on each other under normal use. Would you folks please add more test items that you would expect a perfect paddle float to have? Thanks for your input. - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Julio wrote: >[snip] >This paddlefloat is solid... [snip] I have always thought a solid float would be the way to go (faster recovery, can't go flat, etc). But, I've wondered how big it would have to be in order to provide the same floatation as the average inflatable? I've seen some flat floats used as rolling aids, but it seems they would have to be much bigger to provide enough floatation for rescue purposes. (OK, Science Guys, we need your $.02 here ;-) And wouldn't it be too big to store on deck or in the cockpit (without being in the way)? Frank *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Julio asked ... and probably shouldn't have ..... Would you folks please add more test items that you would expect a perfect paddle float to have? Suggest that you poll the list to see if a VHF antenna can be incorporated as part of the float. Held overhead on the paddle, it should enhance some dB reading somewhere! Or maybe you can incorporate some mylar film in the design and create a radar reflector for SAR purposes, too. Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Well, that is an idea. I do not see the use of putting a VHF antenna on paddlefloat, but a hollow solid paddlefloat could be used to carry a first aid kit, flares, survival kit, etc. Putting an internal sheet of aluminum foil should serve as a radar deflector, but according to Derek Hutchinson's book even a commercial radar deflector on the deck of a kayak is sitting to low to be effective. He says that a ball of aluminum foil wrapped on the tip of a fishing pole is way better. If I knew someone who had a boat with radar I could test that. By the way, the paddlefloat I made last weekend is a lot smaller than the float the Greenlanders use, but not very small either. It is about 18x8x4.5 inches = 2.8 gallons; it could very well hold that envelope thermal raft that I talked about in previous mails, if anyone ever gets to make one. What I have in mind now is box that serves as paddlefloat, first aid/signalling devices/survival kit, and storage for a survival raft. Of course, the Greenlanders could still use it to hunt seals like they use to do. :-) - Julio > Or maybe you can incorporate some mylar film in the design and create > a radar reflector for SAR purposes, too. > > Jack > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Julio MacWilliams wrote: > By the way, the paddlefloat I made last weekend is a lot smaller than > the float the Greenlanders use, but not very small either. It is about > 18x8x4.5 inches = 2.8 gallons; it could very well hold that envelope > thermal raft that I talked about in previous mails, if anyone ever gets > to make one. > > What I have in mind now is box that serves as paddlefloat, first aid/signalling > devices/survival kit, and storage for a survival raft. Of course, the > Greenlanders could still use it to hunt seals like they use to do. :-) I was wondering if a Pelican box might serve this function. They are sturdy, hold a lot, and totally waterproof since they are designed to hold expensive camera equipment. What I don't know is how much flotation any thing like that would provide when carrying some weight in it. Rigid paddle floats are made of rigid foam that weighs little and offers incredible amount of flotation. If the Pelican box could offer sufficient flotation, all one would need to do is attach an over sleeve of some kind into which the paddle blade could be inserted and restrained in position through some straps. Another possibility is something waterproof like the new deck bag sold by Cascade Designs. It has a semi-rigid plastic liner inside that keep it full shape. Since it is waterproof (with a waterproof zipper) perhaps it could work. It like a Pelican box is already waterproofed and offering some storage for needed emergency gear. This is just a thought. I have not tried it. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Julio MacWilliams wrote: > ...Putting an internal sheet of aluminum foil should serve as a radar > deflector A simple flat surface doesn't make a good radar reflector, as the trasmitted beam will be not provide a decent return unless the surface is directly facing the radar set. That's the purpose behind the design of the F-117 Stealth, if you've ever seen one; all those flat surfaces reflect the radar beam off away from the radar antenna. > , but according to Derek Hutchinson's book even a commercial > radar deflector on the deck of a kayak is sitting to low to be effective. > He says that a ball of aluminum foil wrapped on the tip of a fishing pole > is way better. If I knew someone who had a boat with radar I could > test that. A sphere will always reflect *some* of the transmitted energy back to the radar, although with diminished intensity. So a ball is better than a plate. The radar reflectors you see commonly are made with three flat surfaces intersecting at right angles. This creates what's called a corner reflector, a geometry that will reflect a transmitted beam directly back at its source over a wide area. Automobile tail light lenses are made with the same geometry for the same reason- lots of tiny cubes that will brilliantly reflect a headlight. Imagine a pair of mirrors set at right angles. Trace the various paths of light entering and exiting and you'll see how this works. (Light reflects off a mirror at the same angle at which it strikes the mirror) Thus it occurs that this all-purpose device we're designing could have a corner reflector embedded in it. You could embed thin plates or metal foil in foam. Four pieces of foam seperated by metal foil or screen, glued together, would make a great float/reflector combo. > ...> Or maybe you can incorporate some mylar film in the design and create > > a radar reflector for SAR purposes, too. That might work, too, if the mylar had a good conductive metal film. I'll e-mail a pal of mine who designs radars for various airborne systems and see if I can't get some better ideas from him. ---------------------------------------- Michael J Edelman mje_at_mich.com http://www.mich.com/~mje http://www.mich.com/~mje/kayak.html http://www.mich.com/~mje/scope.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
My Seaward Ascente is designed with a Cordura-covered removable (one fas-tex buckle) hi-density foam seat cushion that has a pocket to accept a paddle blade for use as a paddle float. This works great even though it doesn't displace a lot of volume. The downside to this design is that it's tough to get that seat cushion back _under_ me when I've re-entered in conditions that originally caused the spill. Usually I just shove it under the deck bungies and am thankful for the lower center of gravity and paddle for the nearest protected landing. I really like the concept of not having to inflate the paddlefloat and also the lack of a need for yet another piece of gear strapped to the top of the kayak. Dave Seng > -----Original Message----- > From: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com [SMTP:rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 1:02 PM > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] in search of the perfect paddlefloat > > Julio MacWilliams wrote: > > > By the way, the paddlefloat I made last weekend is a lot smaller > than > > the float the Greenlanders use, but not very small either. It is > about > > 18x8x4.5 inches = 2.8 gallons; it could very well hold that envelope > > thermal raft that I talked about in previous mails, if anyone ever > gets > > to make one. > > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I have a different solution to this whole issue of righting a boat in the ocean. As a freediver who enjoys diving the 60 foot reefs, about 2 miles from shore, I and several friends started using sit on top kayaks. While most divers end up with garbage scow like boats like the Scupper pro ( slow ), I opted for a 19.5 foot long racing surf ski, made in Boca Raton florida, by Bruce Gibson, a world famous surfski racer ( these races cover many miles far out in the ocean, and in the Pacific by Hawaii, they go Island to Island, and the surf skis are so fast, they can stay on top of a big roller and "surf" them for great distances, drastically increasing the average speed.). The boat I have, can be made with hatches just like a touring kayak, but since mine is a sit on top, if I tip, I just climb right back on, easily. This boat can cruise for my paddling skill, at about 6.5 mph ( by handheld gps --make that "knee mounted" GPS) , this after about 8 months of use. I can sprint it to over 8 mph, and when you hit a big wave, 2 miles out , on the way in, it really flies-----but so far, I have not been able to look down at the GPS to see how fast I am surfing, since I'm too busy trying to stay centered on the right part of the wave. I have a link to photos and an article on these boats, at www.sfdj,com just look for the kayak articles on the home page. Regards, Dan -----Original Message----- From: David Seng <David_at_wainet.com> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 3:23 PM Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] in search of the perfect paddlefloat > My Seaward Ascente is designed with a Cordura-covered removable (one >fas-tex buckle) hi-density foam seat cushion that has a pocket to accept >a paddle blade for use as a paddle float. This works great even though >it doesn't displace a lot of volume. The downside to this design is >that it's tough to get that seat cushion back _under_ me when I've >re-entered in conditions that originally caused the spill. Usually I >just shove it under the deck bungies and am thankful for the lower >center of gravity and paddle for the nearest protected landing. I >really like the concept of not having to inflate the paddlefloat and >also the lack of a need for yet another piece of gear strapped to the >top of the kayak. > >Dave Seng > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com [SMTP:rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 1:02 PM >> To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] in search of the perfect paddlefloat >> >> Julio MacWilliams wrote: >> >> > By the way, the paddlefloat I made last weekend is a lot smaller >> than >> > the float the Greenlanders use, but not very small either. It is >> about >> > 18x8x4.5 inches = 2.8 gallons; it could very well hold that envelope >> > thermal raft that I talked about in previous mails, if anyone ever >> gets >> > to make one. >> > >> >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>Dan wrote: >...if I tip, I just climb right back on, easily. I always find that when I stop to think about it, sit-on-tops make a lot more sense. But, I still ended up selling two of them because I found a traditional sea kayak a lot more fun. It's difficult to explain why. Maybe it's the fun of rolling (and the water up the nose?). Or maybe it's knowing that if we do swim, we get to figure out how to get back in, and how to get the sprayskirt back on, and how to get the water out of the boat, and... Just think of all the fun that would be missing :-) Frank *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:07 PM 3/18/98 -0800, Frank Lucian wrote: snip-> Or maybe >it's knowing that if we do swim, we get to figure out how to get back >in, and how to get the sprayskirt back on, and how to get the water out >of the boat, and... >Just think of all the fun that would be missing :-) You mean I'm RIGHT? "Real men wear skirts!" <G> Sorry, couldn't resist... { "Three left turns often make a right-The trick is surviving the attempts..." } <http://www.totemwood.com> or <http://www.isomedia.com/homes/gadfly/> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>>Dan wrote: >>...if I tip, I just climb right back on, easily. > >I always find that when I stop to think about it, sit-on-tops make a lot >more sense. But, I still ended up selling two of them because I found a >traditional sea kayak a lot more fun. It's difficult to explain why. >Maybe it's the fun of rolling (and the water up the nose?). Or maybe >it's knowing that if we do swim, we get to figure out how to get back >in, and how to get the sprayskirt back on, and how to get the water out >of the boat, and... > >Just think of all the fun that would be missing :-) I understand this--I used to whitewater paddle. But now, I can "freedive" off of my kayak. Try this with a normal sea kayak, and it won't be so simple;-) These boats are awesome for a snorkeler/freediver/scuba diver, because you can pull them with a thin line about 100 feet long ( depth dependent ofcourse), with virtually no drag, compared to a standard dive float or dive flag. And the kayaks are much safer, since they are far more visible to the stupid, ignorant, moronic motor boaters who will practically run over a dive flag <yes, I feel better now>...;-) Regards, Dan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
PS: Julio, and the rest of you all, > This paddle float is solid and consists of two pieces that folded on > each other under normal use. How did you put the stuff together & what did you use for the float? I am designing a deck-bag (not a water-tight one) to Nordkapp and considering to put something inside to keep it floating, if it drops into water. A half full paddle float is not reasonable, I suppose, it might be so easy to get scratches & holes in it, when packed together with the rest os the stuff... The bag will be placed directly behind the cockpit and secured to the deck with four bungies. There will be also two inch-wide nylon straps: easy to take it all off if I am using hooks for the whole stuff and tight & firm enough when placing my paddle (a buckle for opening the straps) during a paddle float rescue under it all. There will be a net added, I think, to the bag to keep the sun-cream and the paddle-float easily available. Overpacking might be a problem - that might even break the paddle, or at least make it really difficult to put it under the bag. I am planning to make some small (1/8") holes to the sides of the bag - I suppose it will be enough to let the incoming water also out.. Suggestions, comments in general? Cheers, Ari Saarto "In the not-so-cold-as-you-might-believe Fin-land" Kannaksenkatu 22 / P.O. 92 15141 Lahti - Finland - Europe GSM +358 - 50 - 526 5892 fax. +358 - 3 - 828 2815 e-mail: asaarto_at_lpt.fi *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > How did you put the stuff together & what did you use for the float? > A drawing is worth 1000 words. When I am finished with it I may send you some hand drawings. > I am planning to make some small (1/8") holes to the sides of the bag > - I suppose it will be enough to let the incoming water also out.. I found out that is better not to have any holes. Very little water or no water at all gets through the fabric. The problem I have in my previous paddlefloat is that it takes about 6 seconds to drain all the water out of it through the net, which makes it incredibly difficult and heavy to paddle with it after a rescue. I see that you have the right idea. :-) - Julio > > Suggestions, comments in general? > > > Cheers, > > Ari Saarto > "In the not-so-cold-as-you-might-believe Fin-land" > > Kannaksenkatu 22 / P.O. 92 > 15141 Lahti - Finland - Europe > GSM +358 - 50 - 526 5892 > fax. +358 - 3 - 828 2815 > e-mail: asaarto_at_lpt.fi > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hello, Julio! > > 3- While in the kayak, lay on the water holding the paddlefloat behind > the neck. Watch the seagulls and take a nap. Well, I do hope you donīt snore too much with your mouth open. I do :-) > 5- Open the paddlefloat in two and use it as extra flotation while > swiming. See whether one can fall asleep with the head comfortable > out of the water. Please, let us know how did it all work! Cheers, Ari Saarto "In the not-so-cold-as-you-might-believe Fin-land" Kannaksenkatu 22 / P.O. 92 15141 Lahti - Finland - Europe GSM +358 - 50 - 526 5892 fax. +358 - 3 - 828 2815 e-mail: asaarto_at_lpt.fi *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > Well, I do hope you donīt snore too much with your mouth open. > I do :-) My main concern was that the seagulls and other birds could land a dropping in my mouth, so I kept my teeth very tight. :-)) > > Please, let us know how did it all work! > > Ari Saarto > "In the not-so-cold-as-you-might-believe Fin-land" << but very wet! :-) The new paddlefloat passed all tests. I could throw the padde away, turn over, retrieve the float from the back bungies, and roll without back up without any difficulty. Then I put it behind my neck and watch the sky for a while, laying on the water until I realized that I was being dragged by the current into an area where many birds nest, then I grabbed the float with my hand and rolled up. Next I grabbed my binoculars, placed the paddle with the float at the end perpendicular to the boat, and under the bungies, got out of the cockpit, put one foot on the paddle shaft, the other on the kayak seat, and stood up very stable while watching the horizon with the binoculars. In "Amphibious Man" John Petersen uses that technique to relieve his bladder. Now the only thing left to test it to see how a real beginner does with the new paddlefloat. I have a very reliable roll which means that I am probably not the best person to put a seal of aproval on it. The ideas behind this paddlefloat are *The newly advertised "backup" self inflatable device depends on its inflation mechanism, and it is single use only. A solid float permanently available, as the Greenlanders use (except for the inflatble part), is better. *The solid paddlefloats available on the market do not have enough volume to be used safely by beginners. The fact that most of them attach to the paddle by a side packet makes them unstable and flip easily. *Inflatable paddlefloats have several problems, some of which are leaking, susceptibility to puncture, and the use of precious air, time, and energy which are much needed when performing a rescue. *No paddlefloat in the market has a loop to grab in order to perform a comfortable paddlefloat roll (identical in technique to the hands roll but with almost guaranteed success). New enhancements are going to include holes on the floats to carry flares and a small survival kit. In general I do not believe on inflatable anything when it comes to safety, as I am still looking for a set of floatbags that do not leak (so far, perception and voyageour floatbags have failed). The best thing I am getting out of this perfect paddlefloat search is that I get to practice my self rescue skills every week during the tests. That is probably what will keep me safer. :-) - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Back from the west coast and some thoughts on Julio's paddle float. Test in the kinds of conditions that cause capsize. i.e. conditions that will scare the crap out of you. I found that almost anything works in benign conditions. If you can't use it when scared to death a rescue device is not very useful. Test it with someone with very little experience. If they have trouble with it then you know something needs fixing. Experts are not the only problem. :-) Make sure that the proper rigging is an integral part of the float when it is sold. My experience is that a perfectly fine float is worthless if the rigging is worthless. An important issue is TIME. The longer it takes to deploy the less likely it will save your life. As everyone knows I am not keen on rescue gadgets but if one is doing one it is important that the device provides more safety than is lost by the illusion of safety. In other words, if you think the device makes you safer you must be certain it really does make you safer and doesn't just make you THINK you are safer. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks John, good points. Someone also told me that I should have a beginner use it as a paddlefloat and do a paddlefloat rescue; I am embarrased for missing that one. :-) The ideas behind the new paddlefloat are, - No paddlefloat in the market has any rigging, not even a good grab loop that allows the paddler to make a paddlefloat roll. - Inflatable anything does not make a good safety device. A safety device has to be _immediately_ available. - I have seen beginners sinking a 2 gallon paddlefloat in their first attempts to roll with it. - The Greenlanders carry a huge, previously inflated float that they use as a roll backup when everything else fails (although its main use is to prevent harpooned seals from sinking) - The solid paddlefloat I have receives the paddle on a side pocket, which makes it very unstable as it tends to flip. What I did was to make a 2.8 gallon paddlefloat out of two pieces of foam that fold onto each other. On the cover of the floats I put all the grab loops and straps that I considered necessary. The float unfolds when the straps are released, which makes it useful to put under a paddler, or even a boat to keep it afloat (for those boats which cockpit remains underwater when swamped). When folded, the paddle goes in between the floats. I always carry a paddlefloat in the deck bungies, but pretty much forgot about it when I developed a good roll and learned to judge the sea better, which means that for a long time I have not been in need of having to roll due to an accidental capsize (hint, hint, as John says a safety device is a "just in case" not an excuse for pushing your limits beyond what is reasonable). Someone who has a kayak retail business asked me to design a paddlefloat so that he can commercialize it, so that is why I am being so obnoxious about it lately. I know that the members of this list are the best source of input for a new design. happy paddling, - Julio > > Back from the west coast and some thoughts on Julio's paddle float. > > Test in the kinds of conditions that cause capsize. i.e. conditions that > will scare the crap out of you. I found that almost anything works in > benign conditions. If you can't use it when scared to death a rescue device > is not very useful. > > Test it with someone with very little experience. If they have trouble with > it then you know something needs fixing. Experts are not the only problem. > :-) > > Make sure that the proper rigging is an integral part of the float when it > is sold. My experience is that a perfectly fine float is worthless if the > rigging is worthless. > > An important issue is TIME. The longer it takes to deploy the less likely > it will save your life. > > As everyone knows I am not keen on rescue gadgets but if one is doing one > it is important that the device provides more safety than is lost by the > illusion of safety. In other words, if you think the device makes you safer > you must be certain it really does make you safer and doesn't just make you > THINK you are safer. > > Cheers, > John Winters > Redwing Designs > Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft > http://home.ican.net/~735769/ > > > > > > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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