Yeeeaah --- dunno, Ralph. Poetic justice to tip them over --- maybe? But don't drag <me> in on this one! Even in shallows --- maybe more <importantly> in the shallows --- somebody being sent into immediate cold shock and then bumping or snagging on the bottom? Sounds like grounds for homicide to me --- and we need your sage wisdom on bag-boats. I mean, without you, who'd defend the sackakers? 'Course, you'd have lots of time in a correctional facility to start your own net! Bags'r'us.com. But, seriously, that sounds like the equivalent of road rage to me. I liked your first response better --- before Sean and I apparently spooled you up! Jack/Joq *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jack_Martin_at_jtif.webfld.navy.mil wrote: > > Yeeeaah --- dunno, Ralph. Poetic justice to tip them over --- maybe? > But don't drag <me> in on this one! Even in shallows --- maybe more > <importantly> in the shallows --- somebody being sent into immediate > cold shock and then bumping or snagging on the bottom? Sounds like > grounds for homicide to me --- and we need your sage wisdom on > bag-boats. I mean, without you, who'd defend the sackakers? 'Course, > you'd have lots of time in a correctional facility to start your own > net! Bags'r'us.com. > > But, seriously, that sounds like the equivalent of road rage to me. I > liked your first response better --- before Sean and I apparently > spooled you up! > > Jack/Joq Yeah, you are right. It is just sometimes one feels like saying, "OK, you want to paddle that way. Fine. Here is a taste of what it is like if things go wrong!" Sometimes people just never heed anything said to them. That is why the Cold Water workshops are important. I have been in some situations in which individuals don't have extra flotation in a big folding kayak. For example, the couple about mid-way in my book who I joined during some lessons involving rescues. I noted it, Bill Lozano the trainer noted it. We smiled at each other because we knew what would happen during the exercise of dumping the double folder. It would fill to a point that there would be no freeboard. If we had just shoved airbags in prior to the couple taking the lesson, they never would have accepted what would happen to their wonderful Klepper when filled with water. Conditions were calm, mid-summer...so no damage except to their egos. I grant you cold water is nothing to trifle with. But I was in on another situation where someone without cold water protection was getting into a tippy boat and without a PFD on. I was going to warn him and said to myself screw that, let him learn. Of course he tipped over and got soaking wet. We had lots of warm clothing to lend him and I know that soon after he did buy one of those Henderson suits. Nothing like baptism by fire. Of course, I would never do what I advised Jack to do. But sometimes it awful tempting to help the learning lessons along a bit. But anyway I take back my suggestion. Let them go off paddle that way with the kid in the hatch and on to water that will kill them. Do warn them. But then just paddle away or take your boat and go home. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Jack_Martin wrote: > Yeeeaah --- dunno, Ralph. Poetic justice to tip them over --- maybe? > But don't drag <me> in on this one! Even in shallows --- maybe more > <importantly> in the shallows --- somebody being sent into immediate > cold shock and then bumping or snagging on the bottom? When I was in Chicago (25 years ago?), there was a case of a man and his son drowning in I think Skokie Lagoons in a rented canoe as people watched not knowing what to do. If they'd tried, both swimmers could have stood up and waded to shore, or people watching could have waded out to help, as the water was less than 4 feet deep. It was a warm summer day no less. Hank Hays *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:47 PDT