First of all, my most sincere apologies to Craig Olsen. I mistakenly thought he published his private response to my trip report out to the list. As a private response it was completely appropriate. However, I thought he had made it public (still relatively new to the internet), and as such I got overly defensive. My main concern is public intimidation of contributors to this list. We have a great list and a lot of contributors. But the list is even bigger than the people we hear from on a regular basis. These silent list members (lurkers) probably have a lot to add to the discussions. We can all learn from each other. My theory is that the lurkers stay lurkers because they are not willing to get pounced on if ever they should post something they're interested in. This mailing list is so annonymous in a way that it's way too easy to be rude without thinking twice about it. Try some visualization here. Imagine we're all sitting around a campfire after a day's paddling *together*. We all love to paddle, and are all capable of paddling (at least in theory) together. We are bonded by a common passion. Let's focus on the passion, not the other stuff. So, once again Craig, I'm sorry. As a private response to my trip report your post was good advice. Well maybe one good thing came of all this. I found the Marine Mammal Protection Act out on the net. It is located at http://kingfish.ssp.nmfs.gov/tmcintyr/mmpatext/mmpacont.html Happy Paddling, Keith Kaste *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Keith Kaste wrote: > > My main concern is public > intimidation of contributors to this list. We have a great list and a > lot of contributors. But the list is even bigger than the people we > hear from on a regular basis. These silent list members (lurkers) > probably have a lot to add to the discussions. We can all learn from > each other. My theory is that the lurkers stay lurkers because they are > not willing to get pounced on if ever they should post something they're > interested in. This mailing list is so annonymous in a way that it's > way too easy to be rude without thinking twice about it. Try some > visualization here. Imagine we're all sitting around a campfire after a > day's paddling *together*. We all love to paddle, and are all capable > of paddling (at least in theory) together. We are bonded by a common > passion. Let's focus on the passion, not the other stuff. My sediments (geologically speaking), exactly! <G> It is surely much easier to blow somebody off who is faceless and anonymous. Keith, you seem like a righteous dude -- call me up if you ever pass anywhere close to Astoria. BTW, John McPhee did a great, descriptive piece of journalism called "Conversations with the Archdruid" detailing the practical realities of "saving" wilderness: compromise, give-and-take, bluff, hope. David Brower was the archdruid; BLM, etc., were the bad guys. > Well maybe one good thing came of all this. I found the Marine Mammal > Protection Act out on the net. It is located at > > http://kingfish.ssp.nmfs.gov/tmcintyr/mmpatext/mmpacont.html I looked at this, but could not find statements of current regulations. Is this just the "umbrella" which enables NMFS (or whoever) to write regulations? Where would I see the language which stipulates the 100 yard distance, etc.? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Keith Kaste wrote: > First of all, my most sincere apologies to Craig Olson. I mistakenly > thought he published his private response to my trip report out to the > list. As a private response it was completely appropriate. However, I > thought he had made it public (still relatively new to the internet), > and as such I got overly defensive. <big snip> Apology accepted (my feelings weren't hurt anyway!) It certainly isn't my intention to intimidate anyone. We have an excellent list with lots of insightful contributors. I welcome thoughts & input from them all. 'guess my own bias came through a little too much in hammering about proper wildlife etiquette. A few years back I was a kayak guide for a couple of summers. Before every trip I'd include the speech about protecting marine wildlife, being respectful, keeping our distance, etc. Invariably someone would get too close or otherwise disturb the wildlife, so I got rather blunt at times. :-) As others here have pointed out, it's been well documented that kayaks are in fact often more disruptive to wildlife than motorized craft. It's hard to get people to understand this because most of us kayakers are pretty eco-friendly by nature, and wouldn't intentionally harm seals or whales or any other creatures for that matter. I like Dave Kruger's idea about education. The more we understand the needs of our watery friends, the better equipped we will be to help protect them. Craig Olson Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > As others here have pointed out, it's been well documented that > kayaks are in fact often more disruptive to wildlife than motorized > craft. Well, actually, I don't think I saw anyone make that statement. Dave said it is documented that even a slow-moving human silhouette is more frightening to birds than a moving automobile, Michael said he believes kayaks are less intrusive than motor boats but also believes kayaks are capable of startling wildlife because of lack of warning from approach, and I have seen reports which suggest it is because of noisy motorcraft that whales have actually changed their migration route along the California coast. If someone has such documentation as Craig mentions regarding impact of kayaks being more disruptive to wildlife than motorboats, I would appreciate the documentation. I would like to include such studies in the marine conservation pages for GASP. As soon as I find the reports about the migrating whales, I'll also post that if I can get permission. I do think (without any official studies, just my own observation) that kayaks do startle some marine life, but I tend to think that the negative impact is on a smaller scale than the big power boats and jetskis, fishing boats, etc. We just don't travel as far or as fast and there are by far fewer of us out there (anybody ever hear an airboat start up in the middle of the night... grrrr). However, kayakers have left negative impact in camping and intruding upon nesting areas of rare birds and eco sensitive areas, leaving debris and trash behind. I remember a report written by Ed Gilette regarding the nesting of birds in the Sea of Cortez area and the negative impact from kayakers on their nesting grounds. He gave dates when not to hike back into the island areas and suggested that kayakers remain near the beach so as not to disturb the birds at that time of year. Before camping on Horn Island, we stopped at the Ranger station and learned that certain sections of the beaches were off-limits (markers were apparent) and campers were required to remain at least 100 yards from the nesting Ospreys (so remember this on the barrier islands :-) The park had such success with the resulting increased osprey population from enforcing this restriction that they have continued the restriction (as far as I know). Maybe if those writing a trip report for the group could also include in the report any restrictions or information about the local wildlife, endangered species in the area and where to go and where not to go, this would be a very helpful and educational. Especially for resource material for furture trips of other paddlers. Please let us know the source of information. I'll make sure these trip reports make it on the PaddleWise web site so we can become more environmentally aware of areas other than our immediate homes :-) Cheers, Jackie _ _ _ _ _ \\ / \0/ \ / \0/ \ \\ " " `\ ,sSSs,\, )\w/( ,sSS..)/{) <<..> sSSS_v)/ \ )<*> sSS[(\_]___\ <(_/_o_o_ 'sS[_`-+---+) \----+-------+-------'---`-----\-------------') ~~~~~~~ ~~jf ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ o \ o \\ o o \\ o o ` (\ o o >jf:-) o (/ o *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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