Ralph, I believe the difference between the bunker and the car is that the bunker itself being buried in the dirt and the stell bars not being tied together was not a very good Faraday shield/box. The reason for the electrocution in the bunker was that the bottom of the bunker was probably better grounded - i.e. wetter - than the top and the human bodies were a better conducter than the non-intertied steel in the bunker walls. - What a way to go -Saul At 11:37 PM 5/7/98 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >Dave Kruger wrote: >> >> First rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >> >> > > 4. I can't be absolutely certain of this, but being in a folding kayak >> > > with rubber under you may offer an extra level of protection. It is >> > > similar to the principal of being in a car. The rubber tires insulate >> > > you from the ground even though you are in a metal cage!!! But you have >> > > to keep low. If you manage to drag your kayak far enough out of that >> > > high-strike zone at the water's edge, you may want to be in your boat >> > > especially if of non-conductive material. Rubber is obviously best but >> > > fiberglass and plastic are okay. But get in low, drop your head below >> > > the plain of the the cockpit rim. >> [snip] >> >> Then James Lofton wrote: >> >> > Also, I believe the reason that a person is safer in a auto during >> > lighting and what protects them when an electrical power line falls >> > across the auto, is not the rubber on the tires so much as the faraday >> > sp? box effect. I may stand corrected on this, but I believe I'm right. >> > If so, then the folding kayak skin wouldn't add any protection.(at least >> > the same as an auto does) >> [snip] >> >> Yup, James, that's my understanding, also. The electrical field inside >> a completely enclosed METALLIC cage is zero -- so the metallic cage >> (body of the car) protects its contents, *but not the car,* including >> its tires. After the strike(s), it pays to get the heck out of the >> vehicle, in case of fire, etc. Of course, all bets are off if someone >> is touching the metallic surface of the car body. >> >> Now, if the folder were a metal-framed craft, and you could suspend >> yourself between its members without touching any ... anyone for >> levitation? Ralph, better work on that! <G> > >Interesting observations. > >A few years back, I think in Rhode Island, several people took shelter >in a steel rod reinforced old concrete bunker during a storm. It had >steel rods totally around them embedded and intermeshed in the concrete >roof, walls and floors. The people inside got electrocuted. Their >metal cage, in effect, was grounded and so were they. Also indeed if >what is protecting the contents of the car when hit by a downed power >line live wire is only the electric field around the metal cage of the >car, why do people who try to step out, get killed by electric shock? >Would the same protection apply for people in a car hit by a power line >if instead of on tires, the car was up on stands, say a car whose tires >have been stolen, not unusual in some riskier put-in parking areas :-)? >BTW, my understanding is that people caught in cars when hit by a power >line _have_ touched metal within the car with no effect because indeed >the metal cage is a better conductor than their ungrounded bodies. > >Am I understanding that the argument here is against rubber as an >insulator or just the car analogy? Also, what of the examples I give >above regarding the steel cage--the steel rod reinforcement in the >concrete bunker, the person stepping out of the car with a power line on >it, in which both cases the person fried, whereas the person touching >metal within the car does not. I am just asking. > >Ralph (who only paddles foldables with wooden frames until his >levitation skills improve). :-) > >-- >----------------------------------------------------------------------- >Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter >PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 >Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com >"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." >----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > > Saul Kinderis - saul_at_isomedia.com (425)402-3426 - This is a new telephone number *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************Received on Thu May 07 1998 - 22:07:51 PDT
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