Re: [Paddlewise] Lightning Solutions?

I don't know Ralph.?? Maybe they stole from a collection plate at church 
once? <G>

I tend to agree more with Saul tho. The "bunker" would be in the same 
league as a hiking hut covered with metal I would think. Not a place 
you'll likely find me hunkered down in a storm!

I believe you said it earlier. Something to the fact that lighting does 
strange things and is unpredictable.
 I have two high voltage transmission lines cutting across my land. One 
is a steel tower affair that is 200' tall. I live(roughly) within its 
cone of protection?? It also "attracts" a lot of strikes. I also talk on 
a ham radio. One hand on a mike, which is ultamantly sp? connected to a 
45' tower. All during storms. Maybe you shouldn't believe anything I say 
about lighting safety! :>)

As far as the people in the car touching the car and nothing happening. I 
would guess they were not in the "path".(like a bird on a power line) The 
moment they stepped out and touched "both" car and ground, they were in 
the path.
I worked for a power company for a while and I know the rubber on the 
tires did not even inter into the equation of insulation. If you were in 
a vehicle with a live wire against it, you handled it like there was a 
"certain" percentage of current going to ground. You were to remain in 
the vehicle until power was turned off.(no showy jumping to safety)

That in a nutshell is about all I know about it. That and bald eagles 
seem to not know much about lighting safty, with respect to choosing a 
nesting tree! 

James


Saul Kinderis wrote:
> 
> Ralph,
> 
> I believe the difference between the bunker and the car is that the bunker
> itself being buried in the dirt and the stell bars not being tied together
> was not a very good Faraday shield/box. The reason for the electrocution in
> the bunker was that the bottom of the bunker was probably better grounded -
> i.e. wetter - than the top and the human bodies were a better conducter than
> the non-intertied steel in the bunker walls.
> 
> - What a way to go
> 
> -Saul
> 
> At 11:37 PM 5/7/98 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >Dave Kruger wrote:
> >>
> >> First rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote:
> >>
> >> > > 4.  I can't be absolutely certain of this, but being in a folding kayak
> >> > > with rubber under you may offer an extra level of protection.  It is
> >> > > similar to the principal of being in a car.  The rubber tires insulate
> >> > > you from the ground even though you are in a metal cage!!!  But you have
> >> > > to keep low.  If you manage to drag your kayak far enough out of that
> >> > > high-strike zone at the water's edge, you may want to be in your boat
> >> > > especially if of non-conductive material.  Rubber is obviously best but
> >> > > fiberglass and plastic are okay.  But get in low, drop your head below
> >> > > the plain of the the cockpit rim.
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> Then James Lofton wrote:
> >>
> >> > Also, I believe the reason that a person is safer in a auto during
> >> > lighting and what protects them when an electrical power line falls
> >> > across the auto, is not the rubber on the tires so much as the faraday
> >> > sp? box effect. I may stand corrected on this, but I believe I'm right.
> >> > If so, then the folding kayak skin wouldn't add any protection.(at least
> >> > the same as an auto does)
> >> [snip]
> >>
> >> Yup, James, that's my understanding, also.  The electrical field inside
> >> a completely enclosed METALLIC cage is zero -- so the metallic cage
> >> (body of the car) protects its contents, *but not the car,* including
> >> its tires.  After the strike(s), it pays to get the heck out of the
> >> vehicle, in case of fire, etc.  Of course, all bets are off if someone
> >> is touching the metallic surface of the car body.
> >>
> >> Now, if the folder were a metal-framed craft, and you could suspend
> >> yourself between its members without touching any ... anyone for
> >> levitation?  Ralph, better work on that! <G>
> >
> >Interesting observations.
> >
> >A few years back, I think in Rhode Island, several people took shelter
> >in a steel rod reinforced old concrete bunker during a storm.  It had
> >steel rods totally around them embedded and intermeshed in the concrete
> >roof, walls and floors.  The people inside got electrocuted.  Their
> >metal cage, in effect, was grounded and so were they.  Also indeed if
> >what is protecting the contents of the car when hit by a downed power
> >line live wire is only the electric field around the metal cage of the
> >car, why do people who try to step out, get killed by electric shock?
> >Would the same protection apply for people in a car hit by a power line
> >if instead of on tires, the car was up on stands, say a car whose tires
> >have been stolen, not unusual in some riskier put-in parking areas :-)?
> >BTW, my understanding is that people caught in cars when hit by a power
> >line _have_ touched metal within the car with no effect because indeed
> >the metal cage is a better conductor than their ungrounded bodies.
> >
> >Am I understanding that the argument here is against rubber as an
> >insulator or just the car analogy?  Also, what of the examples I give
> >above regarding the steel cage--the steel rod reinforcement in the
> >concrete bunker, the person stepping out of the car with a power line on
> >it, in which both cases the person fried, whereas the person touching
> >metal within the car does not.  I am just asking.
> >
> >Ralph (who only paddles foldables with wooden frames until his
> >levitation skills improve). :-)
> >
> >--
> 
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> >
> >
> Saul Kinderis - saul_at_isomedia.com    (425)402-3426 - This is a new telephone
> number
> 
>


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/
***************************************************************************