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From: Julio MacWilliams <juliom_at_cisco.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] another approach at sea kayaking
Date: Wed, 6 May 1998 11:54:32 -0700 (PDT)
After a close call that our grup had three weeks ago, and now volunteering
to lead trips for my club, I am taking another aproach at sea kayaking.

In our last outting, even though the leader said very specifically and
strongly that the trip was for people who had solid rescue and bracing
skills, and previous open coast experience, a few people showed up with
none of the above. The group was big, and the sea and wind were challenging
even for the advanced paddlers.

To make the story short, I ended up towing a kayaker out of the rocks
against the current while someone else towed his boat away. That person
had a farmer John wetsuit, but only a capilene T shirt under it.
I was towing him and trying to make him talk at the same time. His laps
of silence were getting longer and longer -hypothermia. I was loosing him.

Not too far away I saw another member of the group go in the water. Fortunately
that person was put back in his boat without any problem; they were in
a sheltered area.

I have been paddling solo or with a small group of strong kayakers all
these years. I have been depending on solid self rescue skills, skill 
building practices, and some degree of prevention. Now that I am participating
in large group paddles and am going to start leading trips myself, things
are quite different. Now I am going to start using gadgets.

I recently acquired a radio, an inflatable sea-seat, flares, a tow rope,
and a first aid kit. With such a collection of gadgets I hope to make
almost sure that everyone gets back alive when paddling in large groups.

Before I concentrated in self reliance and not being a liability, but
an asset, to the group of strong paddlers I paddled with. Now, paddling
with large groups I learned that no one can substimate the degree of
stupidity of the general public, and that in a group of 10 or more
there is 100% probability of having a complete idiot in the group.

Yes, prevention is the key; that guy got away safely but he should not
have been in that paddle. But when a group gets big things get out
of hand quickly.

On a side subject:
There have been threads in this group on how to assess the level of
a paddler that shows up for the first time in a group. That problem
is one that guides, outfitters, and group leaders have to put up with
very frequently, but no one had been able to solve effectively.

I have been thinking of arranging a rescue clinic prior to every paddle
I lead, then only admit to the paddle those who performed at an acceptable
level at the clinic. Doing that would make anyone very unpopular, so 
maybe you folks can offer better suggestions.

Making people sign a waiver in which they have to write their next
of kin name is a good idea to scare away people who should not be
in a trip. In the US, however, I found out that too many people do not
care for their next of kin, so back to the drawing board. :-)

Are you folks ready to talk about safety issues and group liability
again, or should we wait for the water to freeze again? :-))

- Julio
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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_seasurf.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] another approach at sea kayaking
Date: Wed, 06 May 1998 21:52:14 -0700
Julio MacWilliams wrote:
> 
> After a close call that our group had three weeks ago, and now volunteering
> to lead trips for my club, I am taking another approach at sea kayaking.
> 
> In our last outing, even though the leader said very specifically and
> strongly that the trip was for people who had solid rescue and bracing
> skills, and previous open coast experience, a few people showed up with
> none of the above. The group was big, and the sea and wind were challenging
> even for the advanced paddlers.
> 
> To make the story short, I ended up towing a kayaker out of the rocks
> against the current while someone else towed his boat away. That person
> had a farmer John wetsuit, but only a capilene T shirt under it.
> I was towing him and trying to make him talk at the same time. His laps
> of silence were getting longer and longer -hypothermia. I was losing him.
> [snip] Now that I am participating
> in large group paddles and am going to start leading trips myself, things
> are quite different. Now I am going to start using gadgets.
> 
> I recently acquired a radio, an inflatable sea-seat, flares, a tow rope,
> and a first aid kit. With such a collection of gadgets I hope to make
> almost sure that everyone gets back alive when paddling in large groups.
[big snip]
> 
> Are you folks ready to talk about safety issues and group liability
> again, or should we wait for the water to freeze again? :-))

Well, Julio, you have hit on one of my more serious "soapbox issues." 
Here's my shot, in a nutshell:

1. You are opening yourself (and the club, maybe) up to some serious
liability problems.

2. The gadgets are a sop for the problems you are likely to encounter,
*if the club (and you) do not attack the "paddler competency" issue.*

3. As it becomes known that good ol' Julio will save the butts of people
who are not prepared for the conditions, that will bring on ... MORE
unprepared paddlers on the trips you lead.

In another context (mountaineering), I went through a period when I got
something out of cadging massively underprepared (but fit) people up
mountains.  It is one of the things I would not touch with a 50-metre
pole, at this point in my life.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
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From: John C. Winskill <johncw_at_narrows.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] another approach at sea kayaking
Date: Sun, 10 May 1998 21:48:11 -0700
Julio;
I doubt that this will be anything new to you but, you know me, I can't
keep quiet too long.
Unfortunately, when you are leading trips (at least those trips where
you are not really familiar with the skill levels of the participants)
it is usually necessary to cut way back on the required skill level
needed.  This is not the time to be leading that trip that you've always
wanted to do, but those trips that you are very familiar with.  Limit
the difficulty to SK II or SK III and cut back on the size of the group.
Also, make certain that you have sufficient help and that you have
several spots where you can cut the trip short and the group can bail
out if need be.
These things are particularly true if there are going to be any issues
of liability (you know how complicated this can be).
The gadgetry is good of course, but it is better to not ever need it.
When I lead trips I do it for the love of the sport, to enjoy sharing
kayaking with others and because I enjoy teaching.  When I want to have
serious fun I get with my serious kayaking buddies (guys/gals I know and
trust) and go for it. 
Count yourself fortunate for having an experience like this (especially
since it turned out OK).  You will learn things that you might never
have learned any other way.  Suddenly you're thinking about equipment,
group dynamics, trip classification and design etc in ways you might
never have otherwise.  It's all part of the learning curve as your
skills and experience grow.  
Been there.  I keep trying not to be there again too.
John Winskill 
 
Julio MacWilliams wrote:
>
>  After a close call that our group had three weeks ago, and now volunteering
>  to lead trips for my club, I am taking another approach at sea kayaking.
> 
>  In our last outing, even though the leader said very specifically and
>  strongly that the trip was for people who had solid rescue and bracing
>  skills, and previous open coast experience, a few people showed up with
>  none of the above. The group was big, and the sea and wind were challenging
>  even for the advanced paddlers.
> 
>  To make the story short, I ended up towing a kayaker out of the rocks
>  against the current while someone else towed his boat away. That person
>  had a farmer John wetsuit, but only a capilene T shirt under it.
>  I was towing him and trying to make him talk at the same time. His laps
>  of silence were getting longer and longer -hypothermia. I was losing him.
>  [snip] Now that I am participating
>  in large group paddles and am going to start leading trips myself, things
>  are quite different. Now I am going to start using gadgets.
> 
>  I recently acquired a radio, an inflatable sea-seat, flares, a tow rope,
>  and a first aid kit. With such a collection of gadgets I hope to make
>  almost sure that everyone gets back alive when paddling in large groups.
> [big snip]
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From: Sarah M Ohmann <ohman001_at_maroon.tc.umn.edu>
subject: [Paddlewise] safety, gadgets, and club trips
Date: Thu, 7 May 1998 10:23:32 -0500 (CDT)
Julio-

I agree with what Dave said.  Don't let unprepared people on a trip.
Assess them however you like - you may want to discuss this with your
club - but make sure that you have some way to check paddlers' skills and
equipment before paddling with them.  

It was lucky that you and other kayakers had towing equipment to help that
person out.  On the other hand, if the trip leader had stood firm on their
requirements for going on the trip, you probably wouldn't have needed the
tow rig at all.  I know it's hard to say no to someone who wants to go on 
a trip, but I still think it's a lot easier than dealing with the
scenario you described.

All the gadgets in the world may not be enough to save somebody in a bad
situation,  and your best defense (as John Winters points out) is not to
be in that situation in the first place.

sarah

> and a first aid kit. With such a collection of gadgets I hope to make
> almost sure that everyone gets back alive when paddling in large groups.
> 
> Yes, prevention is the key; that guy got away safely but he should not
> have been in that paddle. But when a group gets big things get out
> of hand quickly.

> On a side subject:
> There have been threads in this group on how to assess the level of
> a paddler that shows up for the first time in a group. That problem
> is one that guides, outfitters, and group leaders have to put up with
> very frequently, but no one had been able to solve effectively.

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