I've thought about gluing with contact cement Velcro onto the insides of the hull to form adjustable tie downs for the gear I carry in the hatches. It's adjustable, easy to remove and should hold everything in place in rough seas or if you roll......any thoughts?? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
JorgieJ wrote: > > I've thought about gluing with contact cement Velcro onto the insides of the > hull to form adjustable tie downs for the gear I carry in the hatches. It's > adjustable, easy to remove and should hold everything in place in rough seas > or if you roll......any thoughts?? If I have this pictured the way you intend to do it, I suspect the velcro will not work very well, because its best use is to resist sideways (shear) forces. On a direct pull outward, I suspect it won't take much to release the velcro. The slow steady pull of a bungie is perfect for (eventually) releasing it. Someone (Chuck Holst?) has already posted the method I use to secure tiedowns inside the hull: plastic tabs (grey PVC -- NRS sells them, so does Pacific Water Sports in Seattle, and I've seen some at Alder Creek in Portland, also) with D-rings attached. Use 3M marine adhesive -- 5200. And, it really does take 2 days to develop full strength. But, it's bombproof, if the hull surface is roughened with 50/80 grit first (ditto the surface of the plastic tab). To keep gear corralled, I placed 4 evenly around the perimeter of the hull of a no-bulkhead kayak, just aft of my seat. Then I attached a hook to each end of a bungie, hooked one end to a D-ring, and when the gear is inside, I weave a figure-eight pattern, finishing on the 4th D-ring. Very secure, and easy to "unweave" the "8" to retrieve everything. An aside: Sealline (REI has 'em) makes some very nice tapered drybags for softer gear, which fit well into the ends to my yak -- making good use of the narrow parts. These bags have a large vent button *on the small end* so you can vent the bag *after* the large end is sealed, using the traditional "hump the dry bag" technique. Really gives an efficient pack. They are called a "Kodiak Sac," and come in two sizes. I use the larger one, identified as "35 taper." It carries ALL my soft stuff: dry clothes, ditty bag, and sleeping bag. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: ...SNIP... > Someone (Chuck Holst?) has already posted the method I use to secure > tiedowns inside the hull: plastic tabs (grey PVC -- NRS sells them, so > does Pacific Water Sports in Seattle, and I've seen some at Alder Creek > in Portland, also) with D-rings attached. Use 3M marine adhesive -- > 5200. And, it really does take 2 days to develop full strength. But, > it's bombproof, if the hull surface is roughened with 50/80 grit first > (ditto the surface of the plastic tab). Dave, I have to disagree with you and the earlier poster (John Somers?) about the use of 3M 5200 adhesive for these D-rings. The adhesive that is recommended for these D-rings by most of the retailers who carry them--including NOC, NRS, and PWS--is a two-part 3M urethane structural adhesive (*not* 3M 5200, which is a very different adhesive). I have been using these D-rings for many years in both kayaks and canoes (I have probably installed over 200 of them), and I have never had one pull free, in spite of plenty banging, yanking, constant tension, and various other abuse. I am not surprised that the person who posted the earlier message had one come loose with 5200. If you use the structural adhesive, prepare the surface properly, and follow the instructions to the letter, your hull will delaminate before the D-ring pulls free. By the way, one final note for any whitewater canoeists out there: the use of these plastic-plate D-rings is no longer recommended for thigh strap tie-downs on Royalex boats. The large plates used for this application stiffen the hull in the location of the plates, which together with the contant flexing of the hull (in shallow rivers) creates a sheer zone along the edge of the plates. After a very long time, this can cause the ABS layer of the hull to crack along the edge of the plates. (BTW, the stiffening is caused by the plate, not the adhesive, which forms a flexible bond.) Of course the D-rings (if properly installed) will remain stuck to the boat long after the hull has cracked. Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dan Hagen wrote: > > Dave, I have to disagree with you and the earlier poster (John Somers?) > about the use of 3M 5200 adhesive for these D-rings. The adhesive that > is recommended for these D-rings by most of the retailers who carry > them--including NOC, NRS, and PWS--is a two-part 3M urethane structural > adhesive (*not* 3M 5200, which is a very different adhesive). [snip] > If you use the structural > adhesive, prepare the surface properly, and follow the instructions to > the letter, your hull will delaminate before the D-ring pulls free. No problemo -- always interested in better ways to do things -- I used the 3M 5200 out of simple ignorance. I think it will take the wimpy loads I'm putting on it, but tell us more about the two-part 3M urethane stuff. What is it called, and where would I find it? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR sea kayaker -- and chemist *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > No problemo -- always interested in better ways to do things -- I used > the 3M 5200 out of simple ignorance. I think it will take the wimpy > loads I'm putting on it, but tell us more about the two-part 3M urethane > stuff. What is it called, and where would I find it? 3M 3532 (urethane structural adhesive). You have probably seen it on the shelf (or in the catalog) at whereever you bought your D-rings, as it seems as though every retailer that carries the D-rings also carries the adhesive. Many mail-order paddle shops (such as NOC) have a picture of it in their catalog. It comes in a brown box, which contains 2 small tubes. >From the blurb on the box: "This two-part polyurethane adhesive cures exceptionally fast at room temperature or with heat to form tough, flexible impact-resistant structural bonds". It costs $18-$20 for the two, 2-oz. tubes. It's rather expensive, but I am not aware of a cheaper substitute that provides flexible structural bonds. I also like the fact that it is *very* easy to use, has very little odor, is easy to clean up (when still wet), and can fill voids. It is a good example of "better living through chemistry" (or whatever the latest slogan is that you chemists use). Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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