Let's see....Take my mind back to high school physics class....hmmm....OK I'm there....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ah refreshing. Thanks mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 06:20 AM 24/07/98 -0400, Mark H. Hunt wrote: > Let's see....Take my mind back to high school physics >class....hmmm....OK I'm there....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ah refreshing. Thanks > mark I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. Thanx Mark! MAX http://www.solomax.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 11:01:41AM -0300, MAX wrote: > At 06:20 AM 24/07/98 -0400, Mark H. Hunt wrote: > > Let's see....Take my mind back to high school physics > >class....hmmm....OK I'm there....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ah refreshing. Thanks > > I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. Thanx Mark! Y'know, I don't find this nearly as funny. At least here in the US, we now live in a society with an aversion to science. Those who seek to understand it are labeled as nerds and categorized as boring, while pseudoscientic crap like UFOlogy and psychic power fascinates the masses. As a consequence, even though we have incredible wealth and luxury here, we also have a population that's astonishingly illiterate in the basics of science (and mathematics). The pity of it all is that real science is far more beautiful and fascinating than any of the lurid alternatives put forward by the fanatical, the greedy, and the deceptive. There are very real, profound, and dire consequences to this societal ignorance, as Carl Sagan illustrates in his wonderful book, "The Demon-Haunted World" -- which I strongly recommend to everyone. It's very different from his other books ("Broca's Brain", "The Dragons of Eden", 'Cosmos", etc.) and may be the best thing he's ever written. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hey Rich, Lighten up!! I earn my living in science. I just had other things on my mind in highschool besides physics.... mark On Fri, 24 Jul 1998, Rich Kulawiec wrote: > On Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 11:01:41AM -0300, MAX wrote: > > At 06:20 AM 24/07/98 -0400, Mark H. Hunt wrote: > > > Let's see....Take my mind back to high school physics > > >class....hmmm....OK I'm there....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ah refreshing. Thanks > > > > I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. Thanx Mark! > > Y'know, I don't find this nearly as funny. At least here in the US, > we now live in a society with an aversion to science. Those who seek > to understand it are labeled as nerds and categorized as boring, while > pseudoscientic crap like UFOlogy and psychic power fascinates the masses. > As a consequence, even though we have incredible wealth and luxury > here, we also have a population that's astonishingly illiterate in > the basics of science (and mathematics). The pity of it all is that > real science is far more beautiful and fascinating than any of the > lurid alternatives put forward by the fanatical, the greedy, and > the deceptive. > > There are very real, profound, and dire consequences to this societal > ignorance, as Carl Sagan illustrates in his wonderful book, > "The Demon-Haunted World" -- which I strongly recommend to everyone. > It's very different from his other books ("Broca's Brain", "The Dragons > of Eden", 'Cosmos", etc.) and may be the best thing he's ever written. > > ---Rsk > Rich Kulawiec > rsk_at_gsp.org > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Rich Kulawiec wrote: > > On Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 11:01:41AM -0300, MAX wrote: > > At 06:20 AM 24/07/98 -0400, Mark H. Hunt wrote: > > > Let's see....Take my mind back to high school physics > > >class....hmmm....OK I'm there....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ah refreshing. Thanks > > > > I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. Thanx Mark! > > Y'know, I don't find this nearly as funny. At least here in the US, > we now live in a society with an aversion to science. I apologize. I really do enjoy the high level of intelligent conversation on this newsgroup. I just liked the way how Mark expressed his view. I thought it was humorous - a nice break from the intellectual stimulus. It was like a kid making a wise crack from the back of the class. I'm sure I am not the only one who got a chuckle out of it. Who knows... maybe I was. I'm probably the least "mature" of anyone on this newsgroup. MAX http://www.solomax.com - a 4 year kayak journey *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > From: MAX <MAX_at_solomax.com>> > Rich Kulawiec wrote: > > > > On Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 11:01:41AM -0300, MAX wrote: > > > At 06:20 AM 24/07/98 -0400, Mark H. Hunt wrote: > > > > Let's see....Take my mind back to high school physics > > > >class....hmmm....OK I'm there....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ah refreshing. Thanks > > > > > > I haven't laughed so hard in a long time. Thanx Mark! > > > > Y'know, I don't find this nearly as funny. At least here in the US, > > we now live in a society with an aversion to science. > > > I apologize. I really do enjoy the high level of intelligent > conversation on this newsgroup. I just liked the way how Mark expressed > his view. I thought it was humorous - a nice break from the intellectual > stimulus. It was like a kid making a wise crack from the back of the > class. I'm sure I am not the only one who got a chuckle out of it. Who > knows... maybe I was. I'm probably the least "mature" of anyone on this > newsgroup. > > MAX Nahhhhhh.... *I'm* the least mature of anyone here! :-p I thought it was funny as well as a relief. I disagree with the statement that "we now live in a society with an aversion to science" and have seen no evidence to support that we are less interested in science today than in the past. I see more science related programs on TV now than ever before and entire news segments devoted to science and discovery (and it's not just PBS). Participation in school science competitions are nationwide and fun for kids. Science museums requiring hefty donations from the public have been constructed, many with areas devoted especially to children as their audience (I've stood in lines to get into science museums). I don't have kids but I see an awful *lot* of interest in and fascination with science in the children of friends of mine. Much of the pseudoscience is regarded by the public as simply entertainment and recreation (afterall, more newspapers have moved the horoscope section to the entertainment section with disclaimers). Why, Psychic Friends Network even went bankrupt! (wonder if Dion saw *that* coming :-) I think the fact that we are aware of pseudoscience indicates progress. Debunking is popular and interesting. My crowd does not see science or scientists as "boring" and "nerds"... as long as the scientists maintain a sense of humor... or look like Mel Gibson :-) Cheers, Jackie _ _ _ _ _ \\ / \0/ \ / \0/ \ \\ " " `\ ,sSSs,\, )\w/( ,sSS..)/{) <<..> sSSS_v)/ \ )<*> sSS[(\_]___\ <(_/_o_o_ 'sS[_`-+---+) \----+-------+-------'---`-----\-------------') ~~~~~~~ ~~jf ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ ~~~~\~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~ o \ o \\ o o \\ o o ` (\ o o >jf:-) o (/ o *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 01:34:58PM -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote: > I thought it was funny as well as a relief. I disagree with the > statement that "we now live in a society with an aversion to science" > and have seen no evidence to support that we are less interested in > science today than in the past. My experience has been just about the opposite: that there is a strong current of anti-intellectualism that not only encompasses science, but literature, art, music, history, and just about every other field of inquiry. Many of those who simply want to understand the universe (or the world, or themselves, or a work of art) are labeled as elitist snobs or ivory-tower academics or other epithets which say more about the ignorance of those using them than about the character of those they're applied to. While you're right about science being popular in some contexts (e.g. the amazing surge of interest in dinosaurs), I'm not sure that's *real*. It didn't happen because of the controversy over whether or not dinosaurs were warm-blooded (c.f. Robert Bakker's excellent book, "The Dinosaur Heresies"), an incredibly fascinating debate; it happened because Hollywood made a movie about it. I find this very disappointing -- the real debate is far more fascinating than the fantasy. (This is happening again: thanks to Hollywood, the study of asteroids is now receiving some press -- nevermind that the debate over the iridium layer in the K-T boundary and its relationship to a possible large impact 65 million years ago has been ongoing for years.) Again, I strongly recommend Sagan's book ("The Demon-Haunted World"), as he expresses these concerns far more eloquently than I can. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> From rsk_at_gsp.org Sun Jul 26 16:33 PDT 1998 > > On Fri, Jul 24, 1998 at 01:34:58PM -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote: > > I thought it was funny as well as a relief. I disagree with the > > statement that "we now live in a society with an aversion to science" > > and have seen no evidence to support that we are less interested in > > science today than in the past. > > My experience has been just about the opposite: that there is a strong > current of anti-intellectualism that not only encompasses science, > but literature, art, music, history, and just about every other field > of inquiry. I disagree that this represents American society in general as you stated in your original statement. > Many of those who simply want to understand the universe > (or the world, or themselves, or a work of art) are labeled as > elitist snobs or ivory-tower academics or other epithets which say > more about the ignorance of those using them than about the character > of those they're applied to. Not my experience (different crowd, I guess). I have found excitement and wonder in discovery to be contagious and very stimulating in both sciences and arts. I especially get a kick out of watching kids discover and hope I'm never too old to enjoy something new myself :-) A talented, enthusiastic and positive teacher generally finds his/her audience (kids or not) willing participants. Abrasive and patronizing lecturers are bores and will almost always find dull students. > While you're right about science being popular in some contexts (e.g. > the amazing surge of interest in dinosaurs), I'm not sure that's *real*. ???? Well, either there *is* or there *isn't* an interest in science. Which is it? How can you know for others whether their interest is real or not? If you aren't sure, then why label the whole of American society as disinterested? If society were disinterested in science, why would pseudoscience find it necessary to steal from the language of science in an attempt to gain credibility? > It didn't happen because of the controversy over whether or not > dinosaurs were warm-blooded (c.f. Robert Bakker's excellent book, > "The Dinosaur Heresies"), an incredibly fascinating debate; it happened > because Hollywood made a movie about it. I find this very disappointing -- hmmm..... > the real debate is far more fascinating than the fantasy. (This is > happening again: thanks to Hollywood, the study of asteroids is > now receiving some press -- nevermind that the debate over the > iridium layer in the K-T boundary and its relationship to a possible > large impact 65 million years ago has been ongoing for years.) There was a tremendous amount of interest last summer when the Mars Pathfinder's Sojourner explored the surface of Mars. A lot of websites have been devoted to the exploration. I'd rather not decide for these volunteers and those of the thousands of other sites devoted to science that their interest isn't "real." There has been fascination with the sky and sciences long before Hollywood, represtented voluminously in literature and art (or is this invalid representation because art and literature can also be considered entertainment?). Because there is a new medium that draws on the fascination doesn't mean the fascination is less real. Hollywood prefers to hedge its bets and know the interest will be there *before* they shell out the bucks for the project. > Again, I strongly recommend Sagan's book ("The Demon-Haunted World"), > as he expresses these concerns far more eloquently than I can. I'm familiar with Sagan's work and I can't recall, personally, anyone ever calling him a nerd, dork, or boring. Whadda guy! He will be missed. We'll just have to say we see things differently. This has probably strayed too far off-topic so this is my final post on the subject to the list, position unaltered. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
You obviously were not sitting in the back of the room trading notes with Sally Ferguson ;) Not to stray too far off topic but I do agree with Rich that the ignorance of science and math among decision makers is worrysome. I've had to correct high school science teachers on basic principles, no wonder psuedo science is so prevalent. At 06:20 AM 7/24/98 -0400, Mark H. Hunt wrote: > Let's see....Take my mind back to high school physics >class....hmmm....OK I'm there....zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz....ah refreshing. Thanks > ,,, (o o) ==================oOO--(_)--OOo========================== Bob Washburn whiterabbit_at_iw.edwpub.com or rwashbu_at_siue.edu The only difference between a rut and a grave is the depth. ========================================================= *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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