I've posted twice a satirical reply to Bob Denton's tongue in cheek "Glue" post. Satire strives to make a point by hyperbolizing issues to the point of absurdity. It seems obvious to me that my post is satirical. The post is not racist nor pornographic and seeks to make what I think is an important point about the politics that go on in this group. So why the apparent censorship? Who's doing the censoring? And who appointed this person as the overseer of what we as adults get to post and read? I'm annoyed. ______________________________ George Bergeron, Secretary '99 Oswego Heritage Council http://www.europa.com/~heritage/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Jul 30, 18:10, "Geo. Bergeron" wrote: > Subject: [Paddlewise] Censorship > I've posted twice a satirical reply to Bob Denton's tongue in cheek "Glue" > post. Satire strives to make a point by hyperbolizing issues to the point > of absurdity. It seems obvious to me that my post is satirical. The post is > not racist nor pornographic and seeks to make what I think is an important > point about the politics that go on in this group. > > So why the apparent censorship? Who's doing the censoring? And who > appointed this person as the overseer of what we as adults get to post and > read? > > I'm annoyed. Go cool off, George. Paddlewise is a "semi-moderated" list. It says so right in the info file you received every time you've signed up - and I know you've received it several times, as you keep unsubscribing whenever something new annoys you again. The Paddlewise list was set up because of excessive mailing list abuse on Wave~Length. The idea was that a semi-moderated list was necessary to cut down on the flames, particularly (but by no means exclusively) the Tim Ingram Sponson flames. What does semi-moderated mean? It means that *most* postings go through immediately, but some get held back *for review* by the listowner, Jackie Fenton. Most messages that are held for review are approved (I think) eventually, but it does depend on her availability and whether or not her computer is up. She really isn't on the computer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, just to make sure your *possibly* offensive or inflammatory posting goes through immediately The computer is spectacularly bad at recognizing sarcasm. In addition to this, it is beyond reasonable to call "censorship" for any email message that has not been delivered for a day; most machines will try for a full *5* days to deliver mail. That means that you can occasionally (rarely) get delays that long or very rarely even longer. So cool off and stop the "censorship" accusation already, or go start your *own* paddling mailing list. Jackie appointed *herself* moderator of this list, and whether you know it or not, you've endorsed her position by *using* her list - this is not a public forum. Jackie (and me, and my company) spend time & resources giving you access to this *private* forum, and if you don't like it, go take your marbles and play somewhere else. I'm sure Jackie would not mind *polite* questions about why any message has or has not gotten through, but this kind of automatic public accusation, *especially* on a well-known semi-moderated list, is extremely rude. ---------------------------- And since you obviously have lost the info file for Paddlewise, here it is again. PLEASE *READ* *IT* THIS TIME!!!! [Last updated on: Wed Feb 4 13:46:04 1998] Hello and Welcome! PaddleWise is the semi-moderated mailing list established for discussion of all paddling related topics in all areas of the world. PaddleWise is dedicated to safe and environmentally responsible sea kayaking and other paddle sports, i.e. its aim is to help you to paddle wise or wisely. Here you will find a wealth of knowledge and information made possible through frank and friendly discussions among its members who are willing to share their combined experiences, dedication and expertise. Both expert and novice have something to learn and to teach each other. No one has a corner on knowledge in paddlesports. Often newcomers bring insights from other aspects of their lives that benefit all of us. The objective of this semi-moderated forum is to encourage such a climate for useful interchange without rancor or flaming. PaddleWise represents a community of friendships formed from the mutual joy and interests shared in a great sport! The PaddleWise paddling list covers the following topics: - Anything to do with paddling boats! - Trip reports - Paddling equipment - Paddling clothes - Survival gear - Instruction - Paddling safety and first aid - Paddling techniques - Seamanship and navigation - Risk assessment and management - Boat touring and camping - Boat building - Destinations - Conservation issues - Wildlife - Educational events - Paddling seminars - Competition - Non-commercial items for sale To post to the list, send your e-mail to: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net To unsubscribe from this list, send UNSUBSCRIBE PADDLEWISE to PaddleWise-Request_at_lists.intelenet.net To receive a file containing a complete set of Majordomo listserver commands that you can use to customize your subscription to the PaddleWise Paddling list, send the word HELP in the body of an e-mail message to PaddleWise-Request_at_lists.intelenet.net A digest of PaddleWise email is also available. To subscribe, send SUBSCRIBE PADDLEWISE-DIGEST to PaddleWise-Digest-Request_at_lists.intelenet.net Remember to unsubscribe from the regular PaddleWise list unless you want to receive both. This and other paddling lists are provided courtesy of InteleNet Communications --> http://www.intelenet.net/ Happy Paddling! Jackie Fenton list-owner jackie_at_intelenet.net *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 07:22 PM 7/30/98 -0700, you wrote: >On Jul 30, 18:10, "Geo. Bergeron" wrote: >> Subject: [Paddlewise] Censorship >> I've posted twice a satirical reply to Bob Denton's tongue in cheek "Glue" >> post. Satire strives to make a point by hyperbolizing issues to the point >> of absurdity. It seems obvious to me that my post is satirical. The post is >> not racist nor pornographic and seeks to make what I think is an important >> point about the politics that go on in this group. >> >> So why the apparent censorship? Who's doing the censoring? And who >> appointed this person as the overseer of what we as adults get to post and >> read? >> >> I'm annoyed. > >Go cool off, George. > >Paddlewise is a "semi-moderated" list. It says so right in the info file >you received every time you've signed up - and I know you've received it >several times, as you keep unsubscribing whenever something new annoys you >again. > >The Paddlewise list was set up because of excessive mailing list abuse >on Wave~Length. The idea was that a semi-moderated list was necessary >to cut down on the flames, particularly (but by no means exclusively) >the Tim Ingram Sponson flames. > >What does semi-moderated mean? It means that *most* postings go >through immediately, but some get held back *for review* by the >listowner, Jackie Fenton. Most messages that are held for review are >approved (I think) eventually, but it does depend on her availability >and whether or not her computer is up. She really isn't on the >computer 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, just to make sure your >*possibly* offensive or inflammatory posting goes through immediately >The computer is spectacularly bad at recognizing sarcasm. > >In addition to this, it is beyond reasonable to call "censorship" for >any email message that has not been delivered for a day; most machines >will try for a full *5* days to deliver mail. That means that you can >occasionally (rarely) get delays that long or very rarely even longer. > >So cool off and stop the "censorship" accusation already, or go start >your *own* paddling mailing list. Jackie appointed *herself* >moderator of this list, and whether you know it or not, you've >endorsed her position by *using* her list - this is not a public forum. >Jackie (and me, and my company) spend time & resources giving you >access to this *private* forum, and if you don't like it, go take your >marbles and play somewhere else. > >I'm sure Jackie would not mind *polite* questions about why any message >has or has not gotten through, but this kind of automatic public accusation, >*especially* on a well-known semi-moderated list, is extremely rude. > >---------------------------- > >And since you obviously have lost the info file for Paddlewise, here >it is again. PLEASE *READ* *IT* THIS TIME!!!! > OK . . . everyone read my question. I could be entirely wrong, but I feel it's entirely polite and reasonable. Just for the record. The question of censorship involves the entire group, and so I addressed the entire group. Now read the response from Bob Meyers. It seems apparent to me (and again I could be entirely wrong) that Meyers' reply is abrasive and inflammatory. I think it's uncalled for, and I'm greatly put off by these petty attacks. Just for the record. I reserve the right to be controversial. I suppose there's a filter in the system for such dangerous terms as "Nazi," "Marxist," "stooge," "fascist," and god forbid "sponson." Further, let me go on record as stating that these terms don't threaten my Weltanschauung. This might come as a huge shock to you. . . I don't keep close tabs on all the policy statements of all the groups I subscribe to online. No, paddlewise is NOT the center of my cosmos. You may flame me to your heart's desire. Better flames than restricted speech. ______________________________ George Bergeron, Secretary '99 Oswego Heritage Council http://www.europa.com/~heritage/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Geo. Bergeron" <heritage_at_europa.com> > > I've posted twice a satirical reply to Bob Denton's tongue in cheek "Glue" > post. Satire strives to make a point by hyperbolizing issues to the point > of absurdity. It seems obvious to me that my post is satirical. The post is > not racist nor pornographic and seeks to make what I think is an important > point about the politics that go on in this group. > > So why the apparent censorship? Who's doing the censoring? And who > appointed this person as the overseer of what we as adults get to post and > read? You are fully aware that this list is semi-moderated. Certain key words are filtered to prevent degradation of this list and off-topic postings as well as commercial postings, spam, and subscribe/unsubscribe messages. You accepted these terms when you subscribed to this list. The charter is clear on this point. Bounced messages are monitored and if they are paddling related and do not fall into any of the above categories, they are released. This morning, my machine crashed and I have only in the last hour got it up and running again and am just now trying to get through all my email with date stamps that are totally screwed up. I have not been able to get to any bounced messages yet and you would have been so informed had you bothered to direct your administrative question to the list adminsitrator. I have asked you this before, George, and repeat this request... when you have an administrative question/issue, please send the message to me and not to the entire list. You know who your listowner is, George. > I'm annoyed. Yeah and I hear from those that are annoyed because there isn't *enough* filtering. :-p Jackie Listowner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Geo. Bergeron" <heritage_at_europa.com> <snip> > Just for the record. I reserve the right to be controversial. I > suppose there's a filter in the system for such dangerous terms as "Nazi," > "Marxist," "stooge," "fascist," and god forbid "sponson." Further, let me > go on record as stating that these terms don't threaten my Weltanschauung. > > This might come as a huge shock to you. . . I don't keep close tabs > on all the policy statements of all the groups I subscribe to online. No, > paddlewise is NOT the center of my cosmos. > You may flame me to your heart's desire. Better flames than restricted > speech. Unless you get to be the one to decide what annoys you and therefore, should be restricted, right George?....(see included) ----- Begin Included Message ----- Date: Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:45:47 -0800 (PST) To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net From: "Geo. Bergeron, Oswego Heritage Council" <heritage_at_europa.com> Subject: [Paddlewise] STOP THE INSANITY!!! Personally, I moved to PaddleWise to get away from the %&*$ #$_at_% sponson debate. So how come it's being dragged along? Do we need a new listserver called "SponsonDump" were this pointless debate can go to die? STOP ALREADY!!! George Bergeron, Director '99 OSWEGO HERITAGE COUNCIL P.O. Box 1041, Lake Oswego, Oregon 97034 http://www.europa.com/~heritage/welcome.html Email: heritage_at_europa.com ----- End Included Message ----- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Jul 30, 20:31, "Geo. Bergeron" wrote: } Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Censorship > At 07:22 PM 7/30/98 -0700, you wrote: > > OK . . . everyone read my question. I could be entirely wrong, but I feel > it's entirely polite and reasonable. Just for the record. The question of > censorship involves the entire group, and so I addressed the entire group. > > Now read the response from Bob Meyers. It seems apparent to me (and again > I could be entirely wrong) that Meyers' reply is abrasive and inflammatory. > I think it's uncalled for, and I'm greatly put off by these petty attacks. Oh for heaven's sake. You *know* you're attacking the list owner's policies if you start complaining about "censorship". Don't play dumb, you're smarter than that. You knew *very* well who runs this list and sets list policy. Stupid rhetorical attacks like that won't fly. And you misspelled my name, too. > Just for the record. I reserve the right to be controversial. I suppose > there's a filter in the system for such dangerous terms as "Nazi," > "Marxist," "stooge," "fascist," and god forbid "sponson." Further, let me > go on record as stating that these terms don't threaten my Weltanschauung. Don't I recall you saying that you moved to Paddlewise to get away from the sponson debate? It was stopped on Paddlewise only through *censorship* of the sponson discussion. Anyway, your message just hit the automatic delay filters, it wasn't permanently censored. Your message was posted eventually. > This might come as a huge shock to you. . . I don't keep close tabs on all > the policy statements of all the groups I subscribe to online. No, > paddlewise is NOT the center of my cosmos. Nevertheless, your complete ignorance of list policy is no one's fault but your own. If you can't pay attention, it's your own fault, and you're going to get flamed for it if you start attacking others. > You may flame me to your heart's desire. Better flames than restricted > speech. Guess you should go back to an unmoderated list instead, then. Why are you posting here? Because you *like* restricted speech - within limits. Stop playing dumb. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > Don't I recall you saying that you moved to Paddlewise to get away from > the sponson debate? It was stopped on Paddlewise only through *censorship* > of the sponson discussion. Actually, the sponson discussion was censored on WaveLength, not PaddleWise. This was *the* reason PaddleWise was established, so that we could discuss *all* paddling related topics, some controversial, without rancor or flaming. And it was on PaddleWise that we were able to discuss sponsons quite openly and successfully for the *first* time. For those interested in this discussion, see: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/articles/sponson.html It was a truly refreshing discussion! :-) Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Actually, the sponson discussion was censored on WaveLength, not PaddleWise. > This was *the* reason PaddleWise was established, so that we could discuss > *all* paddling related topics, some controversial, without rancor or flaming. > And it was on PaddleWise that we were able to discuss sponsons quite Speaking of the dread sp***on idea. I was in Toys-R-US a few weeks ago, and noticed this big pool noodle. My first reaction was, what a great, cheap way to add solid floatation to a kayak with no forward bulkhead, then I think, *no*, this is a great resting float for freediving from a kayak, then I think *NONO*, this is a $6 sponson! Cut it in two pieces, add some shock cord, and walla, instant strap on sponsons for getting back in the kayak after having dived myself to exhaustion!!! Needless to say, I got one. For $6 how could I not get one. Now its in my closet awaiting the coming of fall, and a return to the water. Who knows, maybe it will end up being an even wierder device once I get offshore. Richard Walker Houston, TX *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Apologies for responding directly to my *own* message... 8-} > From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> > > > > Don't I recall you saying that you moved to Paddlewise to get away from > > the sponson debate? It was stopped on Paddlewise only through *censorship* > > of the sponson discussion. > > > Actually, the sponson discussion was censored on WaveLength, not PaddleWise. > This was *the* reason PaddleWise was established, so that we could discuss > *all* paddling related topics, some controversial, without rancor or flaming. > And it was on PaddleWise that we were able to discuss sponsons quite > openly and successfully for the *first* time. For those interested in this > discussion, see: > > http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/articles/sponson.html I understand what you mean, now (sorry, Bob). Yes, Tim Ingram *was* censored on PaddleWise so that we could openly discuss sponsons in a sane and productive manner on PaddleWise (whereas the topic of sponsons had been issued a "no-discussion" moratorium on WaveLength). Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I for one support the fact that this is a semi-moderated list. I applaud Jackie Fenton's effort to keep PaddleWise from deteriorating into a name calling diatribe. (I recently quietly dropped out of another list when I saw such a nasty "contribution" aired and left largely unchallenged by the group.) Jackie has had to make the hard arbitrary choice of identifying words to flag that will slow down passage of any note to the full list containing those flagged words. If you avoid such words and if you act civilly, you will not be "censored." This group has groundrules not censorship. Call it a dress code if you want. Or, better yet, in our own kayaking terms, a set of safety essentials to keep us all afloat in our discussions and avoiding capsize. Because of these safety devices, generally the discussion level on this forum has been stellar and I have learned a lot. I continue to feel free to contribute without the fear that someone will attack me and not my thoughts. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
You just said what I feel, Ralph. Hell, if I want to be offensive and "jump the (putative) barricades", I know all of your individual addresses. I am very grateful to Jackie for keeping the USS Paddlewise somewhat on course. I, too, am irrationally passionate about my hot-button causes and make frequent use of the internet to act on them. There's a place for everything, and effective ways of expressing them, other than igniting flame wars amongst the choir. The focus on paddling is what this list is about for me. I find that supplying my congress-critters (same as George's, by the way) with hard info about the whaling issues has elicited positive responses from Liz Furse in person and the staffs of Gordon Smith and Ron Wyden. But the whaling issue needs broader exposure than a paddling list can supply, so I blather on to any and all about the Makah "hunt". Even the Makahs I've spoken with tell me that there is considerable dissent over this issue within the Makah Nation, because of the overall repercussions of resumption of long-shore whaling on an international scale. George, I would love to see the "censored" piece you wrote. Could you send it to me at rkorn_at_europa.com? Happy paddling to all, Roger rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > I for one support the fact that this is a semi-moderated list. I > applaud Jackie Fenton's effort to keep PaddleWise from deteriorating > into a name calling diatribe. (I recently quietly dropped out of > another list when I saw such a nasty "contribution" aired and left > largely unchallenged by the group.) > > Jackie has had to make the hard arbitrary choice of identifying words to > flag that will slow down passage of any note to the full list containing > those flagged words. If you avoid such words and if you act civilly, > you will not be "censored." This group has groundrules not censorship. > Call it a dress code if you want. Or, better yet, in our own kayaking > terms, a set of safety essentials to keep us all afloat in our > discussions and avoiding capsize. Because of these safety devices, > generally the discussion level on this forum has been stellar and I have > learned a lot. I continue to feel free to contribute without the fear > that someone will attack me and not my thoughts. > > ralph diaz > > > -- > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter > PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 > Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com > "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:52 AM 7/31/98 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >I for one support the fact that this is a semi-moderated list. I >applaud Jackie Fenton's effort to keep PaddleWise from deteriorating >into a name calling diatribe. Me too!! keep up the good work List Mom!! Jackie for president!!!!!!!! Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
dldecker_at_mediaone.net wrote: Snip > keep up the good work List Mom!!-- Lost MOM?!? I'll bet she's too young to be mine!! Mike Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> > From: Roger Korn <rkorn_at_europa.com> > > George, I would love to see the "censored" piece you wrote. Could you send it > to me at rkorn_at_europa.com? > > Happy paddling to all, > > Roger Hi Roger, You have probably already seen it. Like almost all paddling-related bounced messages, George's was released. It's under the title "Glue?" and was sent to the list yesterday as soon as I found it. btw, I forgot to add, another frequent source of bounces is changes in email addresses. Sometimes a subscriber's email address change is so slight, they don't even notice. But when they try to post to the list, their message bounces because majordomo does not recognize the email address (another filter to prohibit spam). When I catch it, I release the message and add that subcriber's new email address to an "aliases" file so they can post from that email address (won't receive email to that account, though). This is very beneficial because a lot of you (including myself) have slight variations in our email addresses (different machine names cause this sometimes). Hope I've covered all scenarios so that you realize if you don't see your message, doesn't necessarily mean it was permanently filtered. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:52 AM 7/31/98 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >I for one support the fact that this is a semi-moderated list. I >applaud Jackie Fenton's effort to keep PaddleWise from deteriorating >into a name calling diatribe. I agree with Ralph. I was on Wavelength for quite a while back in '95 and '96 and the flaming got very tiresome. After months and months of sponson non-debate between Tim sponson-man, John Winters, and others that at times seemed to die down only to be re-ignited on a whim, I had enough and left the list, never to look back. I, for one, think Jackie is quite liberal in what she lets be posted. I would think that if George feels the censorship too heavy here, Wavelength is the right place for him. Bill Ridlon Southern Maine Sea Kayaking Network *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 15:19 7/31/98 -0400, dldecker_at_mediaone.net wrote: > >At 08:52 AM 7/31/98 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >>I for one support the fact that this is a semi-moderated list. I >>applaud Jackie Fenton's effort to keep PaddleWise from deteriorating >>into a name calling diatribe. > >Me too!! keep up the good work List Mom!! Jackie for president!!!!!!!! > >Dana jackie gets my vote as well. she runs a good list, and largely goes unthanked for it --- so here's my thanks for a great list XXXXXX XXX XXX X XX X XX XX XX XX XXXXX XX XXX XX XX XXXXXXX XX XX XXX X XXX XX XX XX XX XX XXX XX XXXXXX XX XX XXX XXXXXXX XX XX XX X XX XX XX XX XX XX XXXX XXX XXX XXXXX X XX XX XXX XX XXXXXXX mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com-------------------------------------- mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/paddler [index of Paddling websites I manage] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page #-Fortune: The Roman Rule The one who says it cannot be done should never interrupt the one who is doing it. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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