Robert, sorry to hear about the soaking of your radio. What kind of plastic bag was it in? FYI, I carry a small camera, GPS, VHF, extra flashlite & binocs in the Voyageur deck bag with waterproof zipper. This bag has been through a lot of submersions, rolls, etc. with never a leak. It's a bit pricey at about US$150, but replacing these pieces of equipment is even pricier. All the gear is also rated "weatherproof" to "submersible". Two issues I see with it are first, aesthetic (clutter) on the deck, and second, it's attached to the boat rather than to me, so wouldn't necessarily be with me if I were separated from the boat. Icom will probably treat you right, especially if you mention that warranty replacement of your radio is an international topic of discussion on Paddlewise. (:~))> John *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-07-06 00:15:44 EDT, Robert Cline <rcline_at_onramp.net> writes: << My brand new "Waterproof/water resistant" hand held VHF-Icom 3A was in one of the "waterproof" plastic bags, in my deck bag this afternoon when I decided to do a couple of rolls in Saltwater. (I have the same set up as you do John). When I got home and started cleaning up, I found not just moisture, but water in the plastic bag... the radio was wet. Moisture had gotten inside the battery case AND inside the radio. So much for waterproofing radios. Anyone know of a better method? If the radio is not handy, what good is it? >> It <shouldn't> happen. Send it back --- get a new one, Robert. And, depending on it's "waterproof" spec, your ICOM radio might not need a plastic bag. Problem is, which qualification? There's "water resistant", "saltwaterproof", "weather resistant", and "watertight", to name a few. But there are "standards" --- the U.S. Coast Guard has worked with a spec for "waterproof-ness", CFR-46, which requires the unit to survive being drenched with a fire hose at some "mil spec" waterflow for some period of time. And there's a newer spec --- not sure whose ---, JIS-7, which is for "submersible" radios, requiring survival submerged in one meter of water for a half hour. Anything we take kayaking probably ought to meet at least the CFR-46 and, preferably, the JIS-7 specs. I routinely take my old Apelco 510 (a CFR-46 compliant unit) on open water, and will brace and roll with it clipped into my PFD lash tab (along with a redundant strap with quick releases). The radio failed once, but I helped it along a good deal by bashing it into a concrete pier first. The company still replaced it. After use, I always wash it off in fresh water, clean the contacts for the charger, and regularly check and reseal the "o" rings and rubber stoppers. (While I like redundancy, I don't like plastic bags.) But I wouldn't buy another radio without the JIS-7 standard --- just that much better chance of survival. (Also would not buy one that did not have a "weather alert" function to automatically let me know about a weather warning on the local NOAA channel.) Apelco's 520 (list $460.00 US, Defender Marine $264.90 US) has these features, as does, I believe, the ICOM M15 (list $669.00 US, Defender Marine $329.95). (Have found Defender has generally competitive prices --- check around for better prices and sales.) And there are probably others that meet the JIS-7 specs and offer "weather alert" functions, too. Maybe ICOM would let you upgrade at cost for your trouble when they replace your unit, Robert. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
JIS is "Japanese Industry Standard" I believe. I've worked with some JIS loudspeaker specs. Icom M1 and M1+ (bigger battery) are two additional JIS-7 products. Icom was fairly responsive to my problem, with a bit of prodding ; ) Fred JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 98-07-06 00:15:44 EDT, Robert Cline <rcline_at_onramp.net> > writes: > > << > My brand new "Waterproof/water resistant" hand held VHF-Icom 3A was in one > of the "waterproof" plastic bags, in my deck bag this afternoon when I > decided to do a couple of rolls in Saltwater. (I have the same set up as > you do John). > > When I got home and started cleaning up, I found not just moisture, but > water in the plastic bag... the radio was wet. Moisture had gotten inside > the battery case AND inside the radio. > > So much for waterproofing radios. Anyone know of a better method? If the > radio is not handy, what good is it? >> > > It <shouldn't> happen. Send it back --- get a new one, Robert. And, > depending on it's "waterproof" spec, your ICOM radio might not need a plastic > bag. > > Problem is, which qualification? There's "water resistant", "saltwaterproof", > "weather resistant", and "watertight", to name a few. > > But there are "standards" --- the U.S. Coast Guard has worked with a spec for > "waterproof-ness", CFR-46, which requires the unit to survive being drenched > with a fire hose at some "mil spec" waterflow for some period of time. And > there's a newer spec --- not sure whose ---, JIS-7, which is for "submersible" > radios, requiring survival submerged in one meter of water for a half hour. > > Anything we take kayaking probably ought to meet at least the CFR-46 and, > preferably, the JIS-7 specs. I routinely take my old Apelco 510 (a CFR-46 > compliant unit) on open water, and will brace and roll with it clipped into my > PFD lash tab (along with a redundant strap with quick releases). The radio > failed once, but I helped it along a good deal by bashing it into a concrete > pier first. The company still replaced it. After use, I always wash it off > in fresh water, clean the contacts for the charger, and regularly check and > reseal the "o" rings and rubber stoppers. (While I like redundancy, I don't > like plastic bags.) But I wouldn't buy another radio without the JIS-7 > standard --- just that much better chance of survival. (Also would not buy > one that did not have a "weather alert" function to automatically let me know > about a weather warning on the local NOAA channel.) > > Apelco's 520 (list $460.00 US, Defender Marine $264.90 US) has these features, > as does, I believe, the ICOM M15 (list $669.00 US, Defender Marine $329.95). > (Have found Defender has generally competitive prices --- check around for > better prices and sales.) And there are probably others that meet the JIS-7 > specs and offer "weather alert" functions, too. Maybe ICOM would let you > upgrade at cost for your trouble when they replace your unit, Robert. > > Jack Martin > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The Icom M3A is advertised to be: "Water-resistant construction: Built tough to withstand the punishing marine environment, the IC-M3A meets JIS water-resistant specification grade 4. The amount of exposure to saltwater was really minimal. The battery compartment has virtually NO waterproofing. There is no rubber O-ring to seal off batteries. There was also moisture on the inside of the glass. Somehow it had gotten into the radio case itself. I could not have been under water more than a couple of minutes in all... and then, the radio was inside of a plastic bag I bought at WestMarine designed to keep VHF handheld radios dry. The weather has been very hot... I can only guess that the air expanded enough to pop the plastic bag... there was a break in the seal near the clip about 1/3" long... enough for water to run in. Your experience with the Apelco is a great endorsement! Furthermore, Icom does not provide any instructions for getting in touch with them for Warranty issues... or anything else; just an address for Japan! No phone nos., no fax nos. Thanks for the very helpful info. Robert > >But there are "standards" --- the U.S. Coast Guard has worked with a spec for >"waterproof-ness", CFR-46, which requires the unit to survive being drenched >with a fire hose at some "mil spec" waterflow for some period of time. And >there's a newer spec --- not sure whose ---, JIS-7, which is for "submersible" >radios, requiring survival submerged in one meter of water for a half hour. > >Anything we take kayaking probably ought to meet at least the CFR-46 and, >preferably, the JIS-7 specs. I routinely take my old Apelco 510 (a CFR-46 >compliant unit) on open water, and will brace and roll with it clipped into my >PFD lash tab (along with a redundant strap with quick releases). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Robert C. Cline wrote: > > The Icom M3A is advertised to be: "Water-resistant construction: Built > tough to withstand the punishing marine environment, the IC-M3A meets JIS > water-resistant specification grade 4.[snip] > > Furthermore, Icom does not provide any instructions for getting in touch > with them for Warranty issues... or anything else; just an address for > Japan! No phone nos., no fax nos. The addresses below may be out of date. They were on my warranty card for the ICOM-10A I purchased a year or two ago. The warranty card I have expressly states that it "... does not cover problems resulting from water damage." ICOM AMERICA, INC. 2380 - 116th Ave, NE Bellevue, WA 98004 ICOM AMERICA, INC. 18102 Sky Park South, Suite 52-B Irvine, CA 92714 If neither of those works, perhaps Rodgers Marine Electronics in Portland, OR, will know how to contact ICOM: 503-287-1101. Rodgers Marine was my source for my radio because the price was only a few dollars higher than one of the discount marine supply houses, and Rodgers TESTS each radio before they sell it. They deal with the commercial trade, so they know their stuff, I believe. Good luck. Your experience has made me resolve to check the seals on my Aquaman radio bags more often. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 98-07-07 01:53:30 EDT, rcline_at_onramp.net writes: << The Icom M3A is advertised to be: "Water-resistant construction: Built tough to withstand the punishing marine environment, the IC-M3A meets JIS water-resistant specification grade 4. The amount of exposure to saltwater was really minimal. The battery compartment has virtually NO waterproofing. There is no rubber O-ring to seal off batteries. There was also moisture on the inside of the glass. Somehow it had gotten into the radio case itself. >> Must be the difference between JIS-4 and JIS-7 --- and some clever weasel- wording on "water-resistant", whatever that means. Guess it supports my contention that most <dry> bags aren't --- dry, that is. Also supports the idea of staying with CFR-76 or, better, JIS-7 specs. All this is of little help to you now, Robert, but anybody looking at VHF handhelds should consider not the words --- "water-resistant", etc. --- but the spec to which the radio is designed. ICOM should be accessible through your retailer, if not directly --- send them copies of all this e-mail if they balk at making good on the deal, and tell them how many people read this list! Another thought, which was expressed earlier --- having the radio in a deck bag is convenient, but, depending on how the bag is packed, it could rattle around and take some hits (remember my pier incident?), but, more importantly, the radio is not with you if you have to bail out quickly. A good concept to work with is that if it's not on your person, you don't own it in a survival situation. Bottom line --- to have something that'll <work> in our in-water sea kayaking environment --- as opposed to taking a little salt spray at the pulpit of a Boston Whaler --- you probably need to invest the extra 50% or so in a truly <waterproof> radio, and, with several manufacturers building to the JIS-7 standard of <submersible>, it's really the best way to go. Good luck with ICOM, Robert --- and keep us posted on how they handle this, please. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Robert C. Cline [mailto:rcline_at_onramp.net] My brand new "Waterproof/water resistant" hand held VHF-Icom 3A was in one of the "waterproof" plastic bags, in my deck bag this afternoon when I decided to do a couple of rolls in Saltwater. (I have the same set up as you do John). When I got home and started cleaning up, I found not just moisture, but water in the plastic bag... the radio was wet. Moisture had gotten inside the battery case AND inside the radio. So much for waterproofing radios. Anyone know of a better method? If the radio is not handy, what good is it? Robert ************************************************************************** * I have an Icom IC-M1 VHF radio that I carry, unprotected, in a PFD pocket. Despite several rolls and deep braces in Lake Superior to cool off last weekend and Memorial Day weekend, I have had no problems with it. Which is a good thing, since most of the time, I forget it's there. On another note, the volunteer couple we met last weekend on Devils Island normally divide their time between an apartment in Minneapolis and a sailboat in Florida. They consider themselves very fortunate to be on Lake Superior this summer! Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> >On another note, the volunteer couple we met last weekend on Devils Island >normally divide their time between an apartment in Minneapolis and a >sailboat in Florida. They consider themselves very fortunate to be on Lake >Superior this summer! > >Chuck Holst > The wimps all you need is marshmellows to roast and a way to escape if the fire gets to close Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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