I was on mile 10 of a 13 nautical mile paddle from Mission Bay to San Diego Bay. We were at a fast (for me) pace, measured afterward at 4.5 to 4.8 knots. I was in my Solstice GTS with the rudder up trying my best to keep up to with Kris in her Arluk IV (she is very strong). When we rounded Pt Loma and came in to the bay from the ocean the wind suddenly rose to about 15 knots directly abeam. Now the GTS tracks extremely well so I left the rudder up and was able to hold direction with no problem, except that the occasional sweep was causing a slight strain on a not perfect rotator cuff. I then decided to lower the rudder to ease any possible strain on my shoulder. As soon as the rudder was down, the stern anchored slightly and the bow blew off. This was easily corrected by a bit of rudder. However I immediately began falling behind Kris. Added drag, I guess. I re-raised the rudder and caught up to her again. I repeated the experiment with the same results. A bit later the wind died. I lowered the rudder again and was able to keep up again. Conclusion: The rudder adds drag only if deflected. Obvious, I guess, if you think about it. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Your snazzy note read...... >Now the GTS tracks extremely well so I left the > rudder up and was able to hold direction with no problem, except that the > occasional sweep was causing a slight strain on a not perfect rotator cuff. > > I then decided to lower the rudder to ease any possible strain on my > shoulder. As soon as the rudder was down, the stern anchored slightly and > the bow blew off. This was easily corrected by a bit of rudder. However I > immediately began falling behind Kris. Added drag, I guess. I re-raised > the rudder and caught up to her again. I repeated the experiment with the > same results. > > A bit later the wind died. I lowered the rudder again and was able to keep > up again. > > Conclusion: The rudder adds drag only if deflected. Obvious, I guess, if > you think about it. > > Jerry > Interesting observations Jerry. A conclusion we came to was that as a designer, you need to decide whether your kayak will be balanced with or without a rudder in side winds. One of our kayaks was quite balanced without, and then with the rudder deployed (as virtually all people paddle here in New Zealand) the bow would blow downwind. This is exacerbated by light loadings/paddlers or stern loadings. Consequently we now produce boats that weathercock without the rudder, but are balanced (or more balanced depending on the final tradeoff we choose) with the the rudder. The stronger the winds, the more of a problem it becomes, and we do live in a very windy part of the world here. I concur that using a rudder to turn, or hold trim causes drag. Paddling an Olympic K1 with a speedo mounted shows it clearly. Small steering movements show an instant speed loss, even with the tiny K1 rudder. Major turns show a massive speed loss. A sea kayak rudder which is most often a pretty large and crude foil will show big losses as its angle of attack increases. For all that however, we've found that for our paddling conditions, rudders are more energy efficient overall both in racing and touring. The extra effort used to sweep stroke or lean the kayak to turn can be put into paddling instead. There are definitely some conditions where the rudderless kayak is faster however. I also found that during speed testing of our latest boat, not deploying the rudder gave me an extra 0.3 of a knot (7.3 rather than 7.0) sprinting, but at a steady 5 knots I couldn't detect the difference. Of course that was in flat water, and I wasn't using the rudder to turn unless inadvertently, so the drag does become considerable at speed even without deflection. Cheers, Glyn Dickson Paddling Perfection New Zealand Finest Quality Handcrafted Kayaks *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Gerald wrote; >I then decided to lower the rudder to ease any possible strain on my >shoulder. As soon as the rudder was down, the stern anchored slightly and >the bow blew off. This was easily corrected by a bit of rudder. However I >immediately began falling behind Kris. Added drag, I guess. I re-raised >the rudder and caught up to her again. I repeated the experiment with the >same results. > >A bit later the wind died. I lowered the rudder again and was able to keep >up again. > >Conclusion: The rudder adds drag only if deflected. Obvious, I guess, if >you think about it. The rudder adds drag even when not deflected (surface friction plus some form and wave making drag) but the dramatic difference you noticed may have been due to stall. Stall occurs most easily in flat plate rudders that are common on sea kayaks. You may have been getting stall even with the rudder aligned fore and aft due to the leeway being made by the boat. Nicely shaped commercially available rudders see to be the exception rather than the rule here here in North America. The "Classic" configuration for a rudder would be the NACA 0006 airfoil. Its characteristics would be a thickness of 6% of c (c = the airfoil chord), maximum thickness 30% of c from the leading edge and a leading edge radius of 0.04% of the c. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
John Winters wrote: > > Gerald wrote; > > >I then decided to lower the rudder to ease any possible strain on my > >shoulder. As soon as the rudder was down, the stern anchored slightly and > >the bow blew off. > > The rudder adds drag even when not deflected (surface friction plus some > form and wave making drag) but the dramatic difference you noticed may > have been due to stall. Stall occurs most easily in flat plate rudders that > are common on sea kayaks. You may have been getting stall even with the > rudder aligned fore and aft due to the leeway being made by the boat. > > Nicely shaped commercially available rudders see to be the exception rather > than the rule here here in North America. The "Classic" configuration for > a rudder would be the NACA 0006 airfoil. Its characteristics would be a > thickness of 6% of c (c = the airfoil chord), maximum thickness 30% of c > from the leading edge and a leading edge radius of 0.04% of the c. You also may want to look into what is termed a "balanced" rudder. However, its primary use is in sailing kayaks, so I have no idea how well it will work for a paddled kayak. Basically it is one in which 20% of the blade is forward of the pivot point of the rudder. On most rudders the pivot is at the lead edge of the blade so that zero percent is forward of this. The balanced rudder swings out differently when being used and seems to need less radical thrusting sideways to achieve the same amount of turn. I know it has been used to replace the standard rudder that comes with Kleppers, which are not all that deep in the water and have a rather horizonal thrust to them, i.e. they are big and shallow rather than being small and deep. Mark Ekchart at the Klepper Service Center makes one as part of his after market business, Long Haul Products Inc. It can be replicated cheaply using the standard Klepper rudder. One knocks out the rivet that holds the blade in its bracket, then reverses the blade and re-attaches it to the bracket. The result is a rudder that looks acts like a balanced rudder (with about 15% of its blade forward of the pivot point) and runs deeper in the water than the blade in its factory setup. I had a description of it in my newsletter which I would be glad to fax or mail to anyone who asks. Again, what I say may not apply to paddling but it works wonders in sailing a kayak. The original idea of using a balanced rudder comes from Mark Balogh of Balogh Sail Designs. The idea of reversing the standard Klepper rudder comes from Dieter Stiller who was the North American distributor for Klepper. It was something he would hesitate to tell people since he felt everything about Kleppers was pretty perfect. But I managed to wrangle it out of him one day in a friendly teasing exchange. The solution is so simple with the standard Klepper rudder that it should be picked up by just about any Klepper owner to get less stall out of their rudder. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
[RD] > I know it has been used to replace the standard rudder > that comes with Kleppers, which are not all that deep in > the water and have a rather horizontal thrust to them, > i.e. they are big and shallow rather than being small and > deep. If you are referring to the balanced rudder fitted later versus the original rudder fitted to a Klepper, then it is nothing to do with the balance. Replacing the "barn-door" of a blade with a long narrow blade makes an enormous difference to the rudder performance - I know, I've done it. > and runs deeper in the water than the blade in its > factory setup. The crucial point. I fitted one of my standard Data General front panel blades (not one of my commercial production blades). > It was something he would hesitate to > tell people since he felt everything about Kleppers was pretty perfect. For paddling in a very shallow river maybe (original rudder). I also fitted decent rudder pedals in the afore mentioned Klepper. Alex -- ---------------------------------------------------- Alex Ferguson a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz Electronics Workshop, Chem Dept, Univ of Canterbury Christchurch, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
John Winters wrote: > > Ralph wrote; > > (SNIP) > > >You also may want to look into what is termed a "balanced" rudder. > (SNIP) > > I know of no reason why balancing a rudder would reduce stall. Balancing > the rudder reduces the torque on the rudder assembly and consequently the > load on the system hardware. If it appears the rudder functions better that > way one might look for some other reason. For instance, changing the > underwater shape may have altered the hydrodynamic sweep of the blade. This > could also be achieved with an unbalanced rudder. > > For a sailing boat the balanced rudder might be more important because the > boat will make greater leeway and the rudder loading will be higher > although given the small rigs of sailing kayaks it still does not appear to > me as a big deal. Sailing dinghies like the Flying Dutchman, 505, Finn etc > use conventional rudders with no balance without problems so I would wonder > why a sailing kayak might need one. Perhaps you are right and it acts as a placebo for those kayak sailors using one. But to a man, they report great results from using one. This goes for those with years of experience and for relatively new kayak sailors. When it first started getting used down in the kayak sailing get-together in Cedar Island, North Carolina in 1992, one of these sailors said it was like having an overdrive gear. Again, maybe it is a placebo. I haven't tried making the old switcheroo to see if they feel any different. ALSO Alex Ferguson wrote: > > [RD] > > > I know it has been used to replace the standard rudder > > that comes with Kleppers, which are not all that deep in > > the water and have a rather horizontal thrust to them, > > i.e. they are big and shallow rather than being small and > > deep. > > If you are referring to the balanced rudder fitted later versus > the original rudder fitted to a Klepper, then it is nothing to > do with the balance. Replacing the "barn-door" of a blade > with a long narrow blade makes an enormous difference to > the rudder performance - I know, I've done it. Actually, yes and no. The results with the balanced rudder started with guys sailing hardshell kayaks down there. The quote about overdrive above was from someone using both a single and double Easy Rider. The Klepper barn door rudder switchers also reported the same. > > > and runs deeper in the water than the blade in its > > factory setup. > > It was something he would hesitate to > > tell people since he felt everything about Kleppers was pretty perfect. > > For paddling in a very shallow river maybe (original > rudder). Very shallow water :-) best, ralph diaz *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph wrote; (SNIP) >You also may want to look into what is termed a "balanced" rudder. >However, its primary use is in sailing kayaks, so I have no idea how >well it will work for a paddled kayak. Basically it is one in which 20% >of the blade is forward of the pivot point of the rudder. On most >rudders the pivot is at the lead edge of the blade so that zero percent >is forward of this. The balanced rudder swings out differently when >being used and seems to need less radical thrusting sideways to achieve >the same amount of turn. > (SNIP) I know of no reason why balancing a rudder would reduce stall. Balancing the rudder reduces the torque on the rudder assembly and consequently the load on the system hardware. If it appears the rudder functions better that way one might look for some other reason. For instance, changing the underwater shape may have altered the hydrodynamic sweep of the blade. This could also be achieved with an unbalanced rudder. For a sailing boat the balanced rudder might be more important because the boat will make greater leeway and the rudder loading will be higher although given the small rigs of sailing kayaks it still does not appear to me as a big deal. Sailing dinghies like the Flying Dutchman, 505, Finn etc use conventional rudders with no balance without problems so I would wonder why a sailing kayak might need one. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Alex wrote; (SNIP) >If you are referring to the balanced rudder fitted later versus >the original rudder fitted to a Klepper, then it is nothing to >do with the balance. Replacing the "barn-door" of a blade >with a long narrow blade makes an enormous difference to >the rudder performance - I know, I've done it. To elaborate on Alex's comments. The reason for deeper rudders (all else being equal) being more functional lies in their being below the separated flow at the stern. At the stern and sometimes even further forward on some boats the flow may be moving in the same direction as the boat. This, of course, is the flow one benefits from when wake riding and if you can hold you bow right up close to the stern you get a nifty free ride. In my much stupider youth I once tried to ride the wake of a barge tow. Great fun but great stupidity. We were sucked along so fast we actually made headway directly into the wind with the sails luffing. All went well until we realised we were being drawn ever closer to the stern of the barge. Talk about panic. Just barely escaped. I was still shaking when we finished the race. An interesting phenomenon can sometimes occur when the boat can actually turn in the opposite direction to that intended because of this reversed flow. I experienced this once when sailing an owner designed IOR rule beater with an oddly shaped stern. Very scary business with the spinnaker up. It was the last boat he designed for himself. ;-) As an aside, you may recall Nick's comments on the Inuit kayak speeds. If you have ever tucked yourself in behind a larger sailboat and been sucked right along you will appreciate the effect on a smaller boat. It is quite an easy thing for a small light boat to keep up with a larger ship so long as one stays in the proper area of the wake. It pays not to accept conclusions from observations until one knows all of the circumstances. But I digress. Of course, rudders, and especially high aspect ratio rudders, work even better when properly shaped. The proper section shape has even greater importance when the rudder is surface piercing because there is no end plate effect and the aspect ratio suffers. The rudder also will have a greater tendency towards ventilation. (SNIP) >The crucial point. I fitted one of my standard Data General >front panel blades (not one of my commercial production >blades). Not sure what this rudder looks like and would be interested in a description of it. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
John Winters wrote: > <snip>... In my much stupider youth I once tried to ride > the wake of a barge tow. Great fun but great stupidity. We were sucked > along so fast we actually made headway directly into the wind with the > sails luffing. All went well until we realised we were being drawn ever > closer to the stern of the barge. Talk about panic. Just barely escaped. I > was still shaking when we finished the race. <snip> This works very well here on the Columbia River with log boom tows. The surface water moves fairly rapidly forward until you are about 10 feet behind the log boom, then slows to zero speed with respect to the logs. The kayak gently nudges the logs and sits there while you eat lunch, have a beer, whatever. The deeper circulation behind a laden barge, however, produces a violent sheer in the vertical plane just behind the barge. I don't want to try that out, because I don't know where I'd be swept in the event of a capsize. Roger *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
[AMF] > >The crucial point. I fitted one of my standard Data General > >front panel blades (not one of my commercial production > >blades). [JW] > Not sure what this rudder looks like and would be interested in a > description of it. 19" x 4" piece of aluminium with the sharp corners knocked off. The only HiTech bit being its origin :-) Originally from Data General Eclipses or Nova computers (19" rack mount). Just so much better getting some blade deeper into the water at a better aspect ratio. I usually do have a little bit of balance because the lower end is just forward of the hinge line. Because the blade goes deeper before lifting when the tip hits something, my stanmdard production lifting/tilting rudder assembly is better. I also shape the blades a bit better though a foil is the proper way to go. Alex -- ---------------------------------------------------- Alex Ferguson a.ferguson_at_chem.canterbury.ac.nz Electronics Workshop, Chem Dept, Univ of Canterbury Christchurch, New Zealand *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 11/17/98 7:00:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, rkorn_at_europa.com writes: << <snip> This works very well here on the Columbia River with log boom tows. The surface water moves fairly rapidly forward until you are about 10 feet behind the log boom, then slows to zero speed with respect to the logs. The kayak gently nudges the logs and sits there while you eat lunch, have a beer, whatever. The deeper circulation behind a laden barge, however, produces a violent sheer in the vertical plane just behind the barge. I don't want to try that out, because I don't know where I'd be swept in the event of a capsize. Roger *************************************************************************** Roger, SHAME on you drinking BEER when you are in the cockpit!!!! You need to be lashed to the rudderpost and have TWENTY lashes with a wet pair of booties!!!!! ;) sg *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Steve, I am speaking from former experience. I never "hit bottom" with alcohol, but last year I got close enough to see it and didn't like the view, so I've been sober since last December 13 and feeling much better about life in general. "Ol' Blue" (the Sealution I bought from you two years ago at the fall sale) is doing fine. I go places with that boat that I would never touch in one of my lightweight, high speed tortured ply boats - into the rocks at Cape Falcon, up onto the rough shingle of Vancouver Island. Have a great year! Roger SGScorpio_at_aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 11/17/98 7:00:22 AM Pacific Standard Time, rkorn_at_europa.com > writes: > > << > <snip> > This works very well here on the Columbia River with log boom tows. The > surface > water moves fairly rapidly forward until you are about 10 feet behind the log > boom, then slows to zero speed with respect to the logs. The kayak gently > nudges the logs and sits there while you eat lunch, have a beer, whatever. > The > deeper circulation behind a laden barge, however, produces a violent sheer in > the vertical plane just behind the barge. I don't want to try that out, > because > I don't know where I'd be swept in the event of a capsize. > > Roger > > *************************************************************************** > > Roger, > > SHAME on you drinking BEER when you are in the cockpit!!!! > > You need to be lashed to the rudderpost and have TWENTY lashes with a wet pair > of booties!!!!! ;) > > sg > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 11:52 AM -0500 11/17/98, SGScorpio_at_aol.com wrote: > >SHAME on you drinking BEER when you are in the cockpit!!!! > Do you expect him to sit in the front hatch to the drink beer? Where else in a kayak should you drink. Seems like the chances of spilling would be increase by moving out of the cockpit. Nick Schade Guillemot Kayaks 10 Ash Swamp Rd Glastonbury, CT 06033 (860) 659-8847 Schade_at_guillemot-kayaks.com http://www.guillemot-kayaks.com/ >>>>"It's not just Art, It's a Craft!"<<<< *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Ralph wrote; (SNIP) > >Perhaps you are right and it acts as a placebo for those kayak sailors >using one. But to a man, they report great results from using one. >This goes for those with years of experience and for relatively new >kayak sailors. Before I went out on a limb and calimed a placebo effect I would like to try one and flip flop from one to the other to see what happened. So many things can have an effect. For instance a rudder that flops around rarely feels as "good" or effective as one that is more rigid. Fortunately this rudder business has been studied to death by the sailing types. Even so a bit of disagreement exists. Some swear by skeg mounted rudders and some swear at skeg mounted rudders. At least they agree on most of the general principles of foil shape, aspect ratio etc. I suppose trying out more rudders should go on the project list for next year. (SNIP) Even though I fall into the anti rudder camp I believe that rudders could be better designed and built. And, as a consequence, more useful and more effective. I sailed a canoe a week or so ago built by a guy who has been sailing canoes for many, many years. It also had a low aspect ratio flat plate aluminium rudder. The rudder flopped around and felt mushy. I found it difficult to evaluate the boat when I could hardly feel anything through the rudder. I think rudders get a bad name because most have such poor shapes and rigging. Who knows, a really good rudder my convert me :-) Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> A conclusion we came to was that as >a designer, you need to decide whether your kayak will be balanced >with or without a rudder in side winds. One of our kayaks was quite >balanced without, and then with the rudder deployed (as virtually all >people paddle here in New Zealand) the bow would blow downwind. >This is exacerbated by light loadings/paddlers or stern loadings. > >Consequently we now produce boats that weathercock without the >rudder, but are balanced (or more balanced depending on the final >tradeoff we choose) with the the rudder. The stronger the winds, the >more of a problem it becomes, and we do live in a very windy part of >the world here. > Glyn, Do you think many designers actually choose whether to balance the hull design to be neutral with the rudder deployed, rather than with it up? How would you do that anyway? Wouldn't small variations of the load distribution change the result. I prefer paddling my Solstice GTS without its rudder deployed. It is only under certain conditions of wind and chop that the rudder is a real benefit. I think that I am happy with the balance of the GTS with the rudder up, and am willing to pay the penalty of having the bow blow off a bit in a side wind. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Gerald wrote; > >Do you think many designers actually choose whether to balance the hull >design to be neutral with the rudder deployed, rather than with it up? How >would you do that anyway? Wouldn't small variations of the load >distribution change the result. I cannot speak for other designers but I calculate the stability roots using a formula I devised for canoe design about eight years ago. Since canoes don't use rudders getting it right is pretty important. Having said that, I should point out that stability roots seem to be most useful from a relative standpoint and one has to have a design that tracks well as a starting point for comparison. Failing that, having access to a tank with a rotary arm can be useful. >I prefer paddling my Solstice GTS without its rudder deployed. It is only >under certain conditions of wind and chop that the rudder is a real benefit. >I think that I am happy with the balance of the GTS with the rudder up, and >am willing to pay the penalty of having the bow blow off a bit in a side >wind. As I think I mentioned in another post, reducing the area of the rudder will probably cure the lee helm problem and giving it an airfoil shape will make it work better anyway. Cheers, John Winters Redwing Designs Specialists in Human Powered Watercraft http://home.ican.net/~735769/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
There's an interesting article by Frank Goodman (Designer of the Nordkapp) in the 1st or 2nd edition of Ocean Paddler. He discusses the issues of weather cocking and the effect that forward motion has on the boat in cross winds and waves. Cya Bob Denton *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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