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From: Richard Mitchell <mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu>
subject: [Paddlewise] EPIRBs and alternatives.
Date: Thu, 03 Dec 1998 22:32:10 -0800
EPIRBS:

For reference, Defender lists a 17.6 oz. manually activated 406
MHz EPIRB that also sends out a homing signal on 121.5 MHz for
$249.95.  However, it is not yet available to ship.  I spoke with
the manufacturer (ACR, 1-800-432-0227) about this unit and they
confirmed it was essentially identical in broadcast function to
the fancy $700-900 units, but without mounting brackets, auto
activation etc.  

406 EPIRBS work this way, the representative explained.  The 406
signal is received by satellite then relayed to the nearest
ground station (many round the globe but not in all countries). 
The ground station then contacts NOAA.  NOAA *telephones* one of
two registered numbers of persons who can confirm the travel
itinerary of the registered EPIRB owner (the EPIRB comes with a
card and a phone number to supply NOAA with this info.)  There is
also a backup phone number they use to confirm itinerary.  When
it is confirmed that the vessel is in the area from which the
signal originates, rescue operations can go forward. Note there
is a contact delay in this process just as in the 121.5 devices. 
Neither 121.5 or 406 achieve "instant" responses.  

What else can we do?  The discussion thus far has been about high
and higher tech solutions to emergency assistance.  But what else
can we do?  How can the community of boaters support each other
without delegation to some hi-tech government agency?  For
centuries mariners lent each other assistance in times of
difficulty.   Can we not continue to do so now?  Smoke and flares
and VHF are a potent combination if we all do our parts.  There
is a middle ground between "rugged" individualism go it alone,
and total technological dependence.  This discussion forum is one
example -- we share useful and timely information and cooperate
in solving mutual puzzles and problems.  Can we not do the the
same in paddling emergencies?  Where do kayakers fit in the
long-standing tradition of mutual assistance from mariners?  Are
we merely a potential nuisance, trouble about to happen, or can
we add to the collective support net?  What do we think?

RGM

Richard G. Mitchell, Jr.
mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu
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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 03:53:40 -0800
A few days ago, as part of a discussion on use of EPIRBS and VHF radios,
Richard Mitchell wrote:

> [snip] The discussion thus far has been about high
> and higher tech solutions to emergency assistance.  But what else
> can we do?  How can the community of boaters support each other
> without delegation to some hi-tech government agency?  For
> centuries mariners lent each other assistance in times of
> difficulty.   Can we not continue to do so now?  Smoke and flares
> and VHF are a potent combination if we all do our parts.  There
> is a middle ground between "rugged" individualism go it alone,
> and total technological dependence.  This discussion forum is one
> example -- we share useful and timely information and cooperate
> in solving mutual puzzles and problems.  Can we not do the the
> same in paddling emergencies?  Where do kayakers fit in the
> long-standing tradition of mutual assistance from mariners?  Are
> we merely a potential nuisance, trouble about to happen, or can
> we add to the collective support net?  What do we think?

I've been waiting for someone to respond.  No one has.  Perhaps Rich has
raised an issue which makes us uncomfortable.

Are we such weenie, small craft with such limited capabilities that we are
only fit to be "rescued" and not part of the web of mariners who might
assist those in distress?

Is that why responders to the "do I leave my VHF on to monitor 16" question
are running about 2:1 in the "no" direction?

I suspect none of us would abandon another kayaker who needed our help
(unless to do so would be obviously hopeless, and only severely endanger
ourselves).  Part of that obligation is to do whatever is reasonable and
practical to assist others on the water.

I'd really like to know how others feel about this.  Maybe some scenarios
will get the juices folowing out there in the collective Paddlewise craw.

1. Suppose you were paddling along on a nice sunny day, minding your own
business, and a jetskier slashed by you at 40 knots, did a donut in front
of you, and fell off, clonking her head hard enough to render herself
unconscious. What would your response be?  Would you ignore her and keep on
trucking?

2. Or, how about this:  kinda sloppy day, and there's an open skiff off
about a half mile, dead in the water, with a guy standing up, waving his
shirt wildly.  Not your problem?  You're incapable of towing his craft, so
you head on to the latte bar?

3. And, the sublime:  large powercraft, obviously driven by a drunken bozo,
runs aground on a sandbar, tossing party-people around, a quarter mile to
your left.  The bozo establishes an anchor to his stern and begins to winch
himself off.  It looks like he will be successful.  Do you let him go, to
wend his drunken ways onward?  Or, do you slide to his side, Antabuse in
hand, and radio the Marine Patrol slyly as you slink away?

Serve.  

Volley?

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR

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From: Richard Mitchell <mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 05:27:35 -0800
I'm not sure about the hypothetical examples Dave poses but I can
imagine  instances where kayakers might be helpful in an
emergency.  
Though we lack power and speed we are often more
self-sufficient.  In circumstances where other boaters must
abandon their craft for shore the nearest kayaker may be the best
prepared to offer immediate assistance. Most of us can start a
fire, prepare a hot drink, offer a warm dry sweater, and fire a
flare and or a smoke bomb, from equipment we keep readily at
hand, often in our PFDs.  Most of us know a modicum of first aid
and carry full first aid kits, often with crucial prescription
pharmaceuticals.   And our small radios may become the only
operable equipment.  This past summer we were impressed with the
skilled seamanship of the fishermen and women with whom we hired
rides on the BC coast.  But we were also impressed with their
relative naiveté regarding even the basics of wilderness
survival, terrestrial navigation, non electronic signaling, and
clothing and equipment selection.  When their power went out it
*was* an emergency for they were ill prepared to camp on the
beach.

Kayakers may also be able to contribute coordination efforts; add
a pair of eyes to watch a drifting boat or boater and relay
information, even if we can't lend immediate, direct assistance. 
We can also hear things better than other boaters, be they cries
for help, surf in the fog, or an oncoming power craft.  

The question is perhaps to ask, "What *can* we do?" rather than
emphasize our weaknesses.  Each paddler has different talents and
skills.  Develop these, share them with others, and be prepared
to use them to best affect at tthe right times.  We can make a
difference.  

Rich   

Dave Kruger wrote:
> 
> A few days ago, as part of a discussion on use of EPIRBS and VHF radios,
> Richard Mitchell wrote:
> 
> > [snip] The discussion thus far has been about high
> > and higher tech solutions to emergency assistance.  But what else
> > can we do?  How can the community of boaters support each other
> > without delegation to some hi-tech government agency?  For
> > centuries mariners lent each other assistance in times of
> > difficulty.   Can we not continue to do so now?  Smoke and flares
> > and VHF are a potent combination if we all do our parts.  There
> > is a middle ground between "rugged" individualism go it alone,
> > and total technological dependence.  This discussion forum is one
> > example -- we share useful and timely information and cooperate
> > in solving mutual puzzles and problems.  Can we not do the the
> > same in paddling emergencies?  Where do kayakers fit in the
> > long-standing tradition of mutual assistance from mariners?  Are
> > we merely a potential nuisance, trouble about to happen, or can
> > we add to the collective support net?  What do we think?
> 
> I've been waiting for someone to respond.  No one has.  Perhaps Rich has
> raised an issue which makes us uncomfortable.
> 
> Are we such weenie, small craft with such limited capabilities that we are
> only fit to be "rescued" and not part of the web of mariners who might
> assist those in distress?
> 
> Is that why responders to the "do I leave my VHF on to monitor 16" question
> are running about 2:1 in the "no" direction?
> 
> I suspect none of us would abandon another kayaker who needed our help
> (unless to do so would be obviously hopeless, and only severely endanger
> ourselves).  Part of that obligation is to do whatever is reasonable and
> practical to assist others on the water.
> 
> I'd really like to know how others feel about this.  Maybe some scenarios
> will get the juices folowing out there in the collective Paddlewise craw.
> 
> 1. Suppose you were paddling along on a nice sunny day, minding your own
> business, and a jetskier slashed by you at 40 knots, did a donut in front
> of you, and fell off, clonking her head hard enough to render herself
> unconscious. What would your response be?  Would you ignore her and keep on
> trucking?
> 
> 2. Or, how about this:  kinda sloppy day, and there's an open skiff off
> about a half mile, dead in the water, with a guy standing up, waving his
> shirt wildly.  Not your problem?  You're incapable of towing his craft, so
> you head on to the latte bar?
> 
> 3. And, the sublime:  large powercraft, obviously driven by a drunken bozo,
> runs aground on a sandbar, tossing party-people around, a quarter mile to
> your left.  The bozo establishes an anchor to his stern and begins to winch
> himself off.  It looks like he will be successful.  Do you let him go, to
> wend his drunken ways onward?  Or, do you slide to his side, Antabuse in
> hand, and radio the Marine Patrol slyly as you slink away?
> 
> Serve.
> 
> Volley?
> 
> --
> Dave Kruger
> Astoria, OR

-- 
Richard G. Mitchell, Jr.
Department of Sociology
Oregon State University
Corvallis, OR 97331
U.S.A.
(541) 752-1323 phone/fax
mitchelr_at_ucs.orst.edu
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From: Roger Korn <rkorn_at_europa.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 06:43:11 -0800
Dave Kruger wrote:
> 
> A few days ago, as part of a discussion on use of EPIRBS and VHF radios,
><snip>
> 
> 1. Suppose you were paddling along on a nice sunny day, minding your own
> business, and a jetskier slashed by you at 40 knots, did a donut in front
> of you, and fell off, clonking her head hard enough to render herself
> unconscious. What would your response be?  Would you ignore her and keep on
> trucking?
> 
> 2. Or, how about this:  kinda sloppy day, and there's an open skiff off
> about a half mile, dead in the water, with a guy standing up, waving his
> shirt wildly.  Not your problem?  You're incapable of towing his craft, so
> you head on to the latte bar?
> 
> 3. And, the sublime:  large powercraft, obviously driven by a drunken bozo,
> runs aground on a sandbar, tossing party-people around, a quarter mile to
> your left.  The bozo establishes an anchor to his stern and begins to winch
> himself off.  It looks like he will be successful.  Do you let him go, to
> wend his drunken ways onward?  Or, do you slide to his side, Antabuse in
> hand, and radio the Marine Patrol slyly as you slink away?
> 
> Serve.
> 
> Volley?
> 
> --
> Dave Kruger
> Astoria, OR
> 
  1. Save life where posible, even at the cost of polluting the gene
pool.
  2. I've towed a 22' Bahamian skiff 3 miles in 2' seas - 2 1/2 hours
but it can be done.
  3. Definitely rat out the bozo.

Just my opinions,

Roger
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From: <Johnlebl_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:15:39 EST
In a message dated 12/8/1998 7:22:30 AM EST, dkruger_at_pacifier.com writes:

<< Are we such weenie, small craft with such limited capabilities that we are
 only fit to be "rescued" and not part of the web of mariners who might
 assist those in distress? >>

Maybe it is because we are spelling "ME" instead of spelling "me" and need to
be putting more thought towards others instead of ourselves.

John

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From: Saul Kinderis <saul_at_isomedia.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 08:53:57 -0800
At 03:53 AM 12/8/98 -0800, Dave Kruger wrote:
>A few days ago, as part of a discussion on use of EPIRBS and VHF radios,
>Richard Mitchell wrote:
>
>> [snip] The discussion thus far has been about high
>> and higher tech solutions to emergency assistance.  But what else
>> can we do?  How can the community of boaters support each other
>> without delegation to some hi-tech government agency?  For
>> centuries mariners lent each other assistance in times of
>> difficulty.   Can we not continue to do so now? 

I can't speak for others but I end up rendering assistance to other types of
vessels several times per year. As I said in an earlier post, I don't
generally monitor channel 16 (limited testing I have done with my NiCad
power VHF's has shown that transmitting performance drops significantly,
while they still recieve fine - so until I go to something to another
battery source I probably won't change). I do however watch what is going on
around me, and things like a boat losing power or yes even a dreaded jet
skier needing assistance, have been helped. Kayaks, with a strong paddler
make a workable towing craft. The caveat is, that with larger vessels, once
you get them moving you have to be exceptionally carefull in docking not to
get crushed. Another issue is that while you can apply enough power to move
them, once they get going they tend to steer you rather than vise versa, so
you want to be able to let go of the line quickly. The only boat over 25
feet or so I have assisted was a huge 40 foot sailing yacht that lost power
in the ship canal between the Ballard Locks and Lake Union in Seattle. The
sheer size, and the difficulty I had getting it to a dock safely was
definitely scarry (I'm sure it looked hilarious to the passing power boaters).

We can help in other ways as well, with medical assistance being another
area that comes to mind. Probably the biggest plus I see from our rendering
assistance, is that it increases the respect others have towards our craft
and elevates them from mere toys that don't belong on the water to actual
vessels.

So even if you don't monitor your radio, you can render assistance, as long
as you pay attention.

My thoughts for now. - Saul


Saul Kinderis     saul_at_isomedia.com          tel:(425)402-3426

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From: Product Information Department <pid_at_mec.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 08:49:06 -0800
From: Kirk Olsen <kolsen_at_imagelan.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 14:10:08 -0500 (EST)
On Tue, 8 Dec 1998, Dave Kruger wrote:

> I'd really like to know how others feel about this.  Maybe some scenarios
> will get the juices folowing out there in the collective Paddlewise craw.
> 
> 2. Or, how about this:  kinda sloppy day, and there's an open skiff off
> about a half mile, dead in the water, with a guy standing up, waving his
> shirt wildly.  Not your problem?  You're incapable of towing his craft, so
> you head on to the latte bar?

Towing isn't that hard, as Saul noted with his remarkable tow of a 40 foot
yacht.  

Several years ago we were sitting down to dinner, on the coast of Maine,
and someone at the table noticed someone offshore waving something.

I paddled out and found a 18 foot motor boat with 3 people and a dog aboard.
They said they had been adrift for 6 or 8 hours and attempts to signal other 
passing boats had failed, including boats that had passed within 30 yards
of them.  I towed them the half mile toward shore and they were most 
grateful, as without the tow they would have passed just outside of the 
closest island on their way into open water.  I got them close to shore 
just as it got dark.

While I was paddling out my relatives had called the coast guard.  As we
neared shore my uncle came down to the shore and said to leave the boat
adrift near shore.  Apparently once the boat touches land the coast guard
considers them rescued and won't tow the boat.  As long as they were 
still "adrift" they could get a tow back to the local harbor.

kirk
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From: Lloyd Bowles <lbowles_at_bmts.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 08 Dec 1998 15:58:19 -0500
Dave Kruger wrote:
> 
> Richard Mitchell wrote:
> 
> >  Where do kayakers fit in the
> > long-standing tradition of mutual assistance from mariners?  Are
> > we merely a potential nuisance, trouble about to happen, or can
> > we add to the collective support net?  What do we think?
> 
> Are we such weenie, small craft with such limited capabilities that we are
> only fit to be "rescued" and not part of the web of mariners who might
> assist those in distress?
> [snip]  there's an open skiff off
> about a half mile, dead in the water, with a guy standing up, waving his
> shirt wildly.  Not your problem?
 
When I was a teenager (26 years ago), I assisted power boaters several
times by paddling to a nearby marina to get help. If there hadn't been a
marina, I would definitely have tried towing.  
Oh, these guys were usually out of gas. Bright, yes? 
-- 
Lloyd Bowles
The Mad Canoeist
"Keep the open side up!"
http://www.fortunecity.com/greenfield/clearstreets/358/index.html
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From: Chuck Holst <CHUCK_at_multitech.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:26:19 -0600
I once towed a stalled jetski to shore on a local lake. Of course,
there was an attractive young woman on it; if it had been her
boyfriend, I probably wouldn't have bothered. ;-)

BTW, it was a hard tow; jet skis are heavy and designed to plane on
top of the water, not glide through it.

Chuck Holst  
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From: Steve Cramer <cramer_at_coe.uga.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 10:20:02 -0500
Me, I would have offered her a ride on my back deck, "Hold on tight
around me, now. If you want to see where we're going, feel free to rest
your head on my shoulder."

Let he boyfiend figure out how to get the stinkpot to shore.

Steve

Chuck Holst wrote:
> 
> I once towed a stalled jetski to shore on a local lake. Of course,
> there was an attractive young woman on it; if it had been her
> boyfriend, I probably wouldn't have bothered. ;-)
> 
> BTW, it was a hard tow; jet skis are heavy and designed to plane on
> top of the water, not glide through it.
> 
> Chuck Holst
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-- 
Test Scoring & Reporting Services       Sometimes, you never can
University of Georgia                     always tell what you
Athens, GA 30602-5593                       least expect the most.
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From: <outdoors_at_biddeford.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Mutual Assistance
Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 21:08:13 -0500
At 04:26 PM 12/8/98 -0600, Chuck Holst wrote:
>
>I once towed a stalled jetski to shore on a local lake. Of course,
>there was an attractive young woman on it; if it had been her
>boyfriend, I probably wouldn't have bothered. ;-)
>
So Chuck, was it worth it?  Did you win her over from the dark side?

			Bill Ridlon
			Southern Maine Sea Kayaking Network

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