So, someone fell victim of anxiety and paddled forward at top speed leaving the group behind and capsizing afterwards? Then attempted an unsuccessful paddlefloat rescue that drained out the last drop of self confidence, and possibly induced mild hypothermia due to the long immersion? A club outting where the group can not stay together? That same story appears highlighted in the textbook of the class "Why Club Trips Suck 101". Maybe we can exchange some thoughts around here about what can be done, if there really is any hope, to avoid that classical club trip scenario. IMO, the problem #1 of club trips is that there is no leader. Club trips are made of a bunch of individualistic leaders and captains of their own kayaks who show up for their own pleasure, not to learn anything. The second problem is definitely how hard it is to address the skill level of a paddler. Asking a paddler to perform a paddlefloat rescue says nothing about his/her skill level. Neither does rolling --many BCU instructors teach rolling first thing before even taking a kayaker out to sea. Let us face it, it is near to impossible. A certification program _might_ help, or at least do the effect of an aspirin on the trip organizer's head, but there are serious problems about it. One is that if a certified paddler gets in trouble, he/she or a greedy lawyer can sue the certification agency with the argument "you told Mr/x X that he was competent for the kind of conditions that caused his injury, and ... etc". The other is that say, a BCU 3 star paddler, might not be 3 star any longer after no paddling, or only doing calm waters for the last 2 years. Does anyone know the formula for leading club trips without going to the scenario described in that looooooong post? - Julio *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Does anyone know the formula for leading club trips without > going to the scenario described in that looooooong post? > > - Julio Yes. It is a simple formula that combines the letters F, E, A, and R. Arrange for something very fearful or sobering to happen within the first 10 minutes or so of the trip. For example, have someone get caught against some piers or fall over in a tricky spot, say at the edge of a busy channel. Once, that person is cleared of the piers and the poor soul near the channel is plucked out, I assure you that the group will stay together like glue. :-) It's like some people wandering around in an abandoned old house at midnight. They may spread out at first in giddy fashion but with the first slam of a shutter, strange creaking sound or loud wail from the attic the group of wanderers will get together in a hurry. Of course, it might be done in another way. Maybe have several stories to tell the group before starting off. About poor Charlie who last year was on one of these trips and he left the group and da da da... As for the rest of the questions regarding demonstrated skill levels, cerification etc. I tend to lean on the advice of one guru. Make certain that they have good fitting PFDs and have them well-snugged up. This way if they have exaggerated their skills or the certification, you at least know they will float. In cold water, make certain that they are wearing clothing that will keep them functioning for awhile. After that just follow some good group dynamics stuff. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Julio MacWilliams wrote: > > So, someone fell victim of anxiety and paddled forward at top > speed leaving the group behind and capsizing afterwards? > Then attempted an unsuccessful paddlefloat rescue that drained > out the last drop of self confidence, and possibly induced mild > hypothermia due to the long immersion?[snip] > Maybe we can exchange some > thoughts around here about what can be done, if there really is > any hope, to avoid that classical club trip scenario. > > IMO, the problem #1 of club trips is that there is no leader. > > The second problem is definitely how hard it is to address the > skill level of a paddler. Asking a paddler to perform a > paddlefloat rescue says nothing about his/her skill level. [snip > A certification program _might_ help, or at least do the > effect of an aspirin on the trip organizer's head, but there > are serious problems about it. [snip] > > Does anyone know the formula for leading club trips without > going to the scenario described in that looooooong post? Julio, in your efficient and diplomatic way, you have cut to the heart of the problem. Thank you for that. Club trips, assuming the usual degree of discipline found in clubs in the USA, are a real headache. If the nominal trip organizer tosses someone for low skill level, he/she gets dinged for being a "dictator." If someone has a scary experience on a trip, others are only too eager to second-guess the trip leader's "poor judgement." My personal solution is never to go on any "club" trips -- not a solution to the problem, at all. If I were a club trip leader, I'd be an ***hole about who could go and who could not. My brother, who used to do serious WW in an OC-1 as part of club trips, seemed to have the right attitude. He spent countless hours helping others develop the skills needed to negotiate the WW trips he lead/went on. His group seemed to have developed the ethic to guide folks into trips which wer at their skill level. Rescue being a somewhat less problematic issue in WW, he got away with it. Sea kayaking? Different ball game. In a group of paddlers of mixed skills, the rule is that the group does not attempt stuff which is clearly beyond the skill level of the weakest paddler. The corollary is that folks who consistently exaggerate their skills, or who are a PITA, *do not get invited back.* What else can a person do? -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 12/7/98 11:42:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, juliom_at_cisco.com writes: << Does anyone know the formula for leading club trips without going to the scenario described in that looooooong post? - Julio >> One of my clubs (POST, a whitewater canoeing club in the San Francisco Bay Area that takes two-day trips) requires all paddlers to demonstrate to the leader beforehand that they are up to the level expected for the trip. That usually works pretty well, but not always. BijiliE *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Of course, it might be done in another way. Maybe have several stories to tell the group before starting off. About poor Charlie who last year was on one of these trips and he left the group and da da da... ------------------- 25+ years ago I took a ww class in Connecticut. They fitted us out with PFDs & paddles and then before even seeing a canoe, they showed us a film. A bunch of young men and women are partying on a beach near a set of rapids. Two macho types decide to take an open canoe out. They both put on PFDs without fastening them and push out into the fairly shallow rapids. The canoe goes over, one guy ends up upstream of the canoe, the other downstream. The camera focuses on the downstream guy. He stands up in about 2 feet of water. The canoe comes down on him and he goes over backwards. The PFD comes off and his foot gets caught between two rocks. The forces of the river is too strong for him to twist around and get up. The guy has shoulder length hair and the camera pans in on him. He is stretched out under water, his arms over his head and his long hair spread out and flowing down stream. The camera pulls back and that's the end of the film. 25 years later those lessons are still firmly implanted in my head. Seems to me a similar film could prove valuable to sk clubs. You're always going to have novices coming in and people who have learned just a little on their own. A staged film depicting potenital dangers of boat wakes, rip tides, river currents, waves, carelessness, surf, hypothermia, etc. shown to new members may just get their attention. A little CPR scene at the end of the film might give additional room for thought. This would not be a film on what to do, but what not to do and what might result if you do. Viewing the film could be a club requirement and shouldn't offend anyone. An instructor once told me the biggest problem he had with students was many would see an osprey or something. They would watch it until it was directly overhead and they were looking straing up. Then, because they were off balance, they would promptly capsize. Silly? Sure! But if you don't know any better.... (no that didn't happen to me). Another silly one is turning to look backwards without some sort of brace. (no I didn't, but almost, several times). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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