Julio- >That same story appears highlighted in the textbook of the >class "Why Club Trips Suck 101". Maybe we can exchange some >thoughts around here about what can be done, if there really is >any hope, to avoid that classical club trip scenario. One of the scenarios involved a group of friends paddling together, not a club trip. In my own experience this can be a problem with any type of group. >IMO, the problem #1 of club trips is that there is no leader. >Club trips are made of a bunch of individualistic leaders and >captains of their own kayaks who show up for their own pleasure, >not to learn anything. Last year on this group myself and others beat to death the topic of club safety, trip leaders vs. organizers, and liability. For those who are not yet sick of it, I'll briefly mention some of the things that came up during the exchange. I found from talking to members of a number of different clubs in the US and Canada that most did not want to have trip leaders who were responsible for the paddlers on a trip in the same way that a guide or outfitter is responsible for their clients. The reasons for this ranged from the reason you mention above to more serious concerns and questions about liability and responsibility: If you have a leader, as opposed to a organizer who simply coordinates the trip, shouldn't you require leaders to have specific skills? If you do this, who is going to rate a prospective leader or certify that they are fit to lead trips? Who is going to certify those who pass judgement on other potential trip leaders? If your club provides a training program, or uses someone else's (such as ACA or BCU), what guarantee do you have that the program produces someone who is qualified to lead? If your club is in the business of rating or certifying people as qualified to lead trips, and something happens on a trip, especially something fatal, wouldn't having certification requirements in place imply legal and financial responsibility if your certification program or its enforcement were found to be deficient? These exact same questions can be posed with respect to paddlers who go on a club trip and their skill level. >The second problem is definitely how hard it is to address the >skill level of a paddler. Asking a paddler to perform a >paddlefloat rescue says nothing about his/her skill level. >Neither does rolling --many BCU instructors teach rolling >first thing before even taking a kayaker out to sea. >Let us face it, it is near to impossible. > >A certification program _might_ help, or at least do the >effect of an aspirin on the trip organizer's head, but there >are serious problems about it. One is that if a certified >paddler gets in trouble, he/she or a greedy lawyer can sue >the certification agency with the argument "you told Mr/x X >that he was competent for the kind of conditions that caused >his injury, and ... etc". The other is that say, a BCU 3 star >paddler, might not be 3 star any longer after no paddling, or >only doing calm waters for the last 2 years. Out of something like 18 clubs whose members I talked to, only the Ontario Recreational Canoeing Association had a certification program for trip leaders, which they had implemented after a series of problems with a few individuals (the ORCA folks can be more specific or correct me if I'm wrong). I would be interested in hearing from any other clubs who also have certification for trip leaders or participants (other than the common requirement that paddlers demonstrate a paddlefloat or other self rescue). Sarah Ohmann *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> >IMO, the problem #1 of club trips is that there is no leader. Well, as opposed to what? Commercial trips? Military trips? The Tsunami Rangers? > >Club trips are made of a bunch of individualistic leaders and > >captains of their own kayaks who show up for their own pleasure, > >not to learn anything. > Plenty of times, I go paddling for my own pleasure, and not to learn anything, at least not in the formal sense. It is understood that we will take care of each other on the water. I am not likely to want to test anyone else nor be tested just to go out on a club trip. I would agree with Ralph: you check the PFDs, check the clothing, then keep your eyes open, keep communication open, and keep safety first. Adjust the day's plan to the interests and skills of the people there, and don't hesitate to change plans to adjust to conditions. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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