I have an Apelco 510 5w. handheld VHF radio that I use on my sailboat. No one can hear me even 3 miles away unless I climb onto my cabintop. I can boost the range by using a 4' base-loaded s.s. whip antenna (3 db) at the masthead, which is the standard solution. However, the folks at Raytheon told me that I would do almost as well by just mounting the whip on the rail, because that would get me almost to the limit of what 5w will do with a 3db antenna. Although Raytheon wouldn't quantify the range, they felt that it would at least triple -- going from the rubber ducky in the cockpit to the whip on the rail. I am considering bringing the whip antenna along on a paddle, in the belief that if I need greater range, switching to the whip (handheld or on a stick) will greatly increase my range. Anyone know if this will work? Ken Cooperstein *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Hams don't call them "rubber dummy loads" for nothing. The higher you can mount the antenna the better. T.V. station transmitting antennas are only a few feet tall but are mounted on towers 500 to a thousand feet tall. They don't spend all that money for nothing. 73 Gary N9ZSV/KT At 05:47 PM 1/21/99 -0500, Kenneth Cooperstein wrote: >I have an Apelco 510 5w. handheld VHF radio that I use on my sailboat. >No one can hear me even 3 miles away unless I climb onto my cabintop. > >I can boost the range by using a 4' base-loaded s.s. whip antenna (3 db) >at the masthead, which is the standard solution. However, the folks at >Raytheon told me that I would do almost as well by just mounting the >whip on the rail, because that would get me almost to the limit of what >5w will do with a 3db antenna. Although Raytheon wouldn't quantify the >range, they felt that it would at least triple -- going from the rubber >ducky in the cockpit to the whip on the rail. > >I am considering bringing the whip antenna along on a paddle, in the >belief that if I need greater range, switching to the whip (handheld or >on a stick) will greatly increase my range. Anyone know if this will >work? > >Ken Cooperstein > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** > > Gary Pewitt N9ZSV/KT gpewitt_at_execpc.com 6120 W. Calumet Rd. Apt. 204, Milwaukee, WI 53223 414 355 8147 home 414 297 4307 work Sturgeon's Law "Ninty percent of everything is crap." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Ken, I've thought about this problem as well. I think the best solution is to use your VHF for a glorified weather radio, and to just use your cellular telephone in emergencies. Assuming you are just using it for emergency communication (as opposed to group conversation on the water, or trying to raise a barge that is about to hit you), the telephone will do the same trick with a much greater range. I think the Coast Guard can even be patched in. Last I heard, the cellular will cover the entire Chesapeake Bay area. Anyone else's thoughts? - Scott Ives Kenneth Cooperstein wrote: > > I have an Apelco 510 5w. handheld VHF radio that I use on my sailboat. > No one can hear me even 3 miles away unless I climb onto my cabintop. > > I can boost the range by using a 4' base-loaded s.s. whip antenna (3 db) > at the masthead, which is the standard solution. However, the folks at > Raytheon told me that I would do almost as well by just mounting the > whip on the rail, because that would get me almost to the limit of what > 5w will do with a 3db antenna. Although Raytheon wouldn't quantify the > range, they felt that it would at least triple -- going from the rubber > ducky in the cockpit to the whip on the rail. > > I am considering bringing the whip antenna along on a paddle, in the > belief that if I need greater range, switching to the whip (handheld or > on a stick) will greatly increase my range. Anyone know if this will > work? > > Ken Cooperstein > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** -- Scott Ives ssives_at_erols.com - avid father, husband, photographer, kayaker, jet skier and Mustang Cobra convertible owner *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> Last I heard, the cellular will cover the entire Chesapeake Bay area. Years back, we chartered a 40' sailboat with a set of friends. Chartered boats always offered us a series of surprises (challenges). In this boat, we found, that the electrical system suffered a failure when we tried starting the engines after a night of being anchored up a fairly narrow river, the Southern branch of the Wye River in Maryland just off of the Chesapeake. We thought, no problem... we're a sail boat, we don't need any stinking engines to get us back to home port. We set sail and tacked our way down the Wye out to it's mouth. All went well despite our not having a depth gauge. Anyone who sails the bay knows that this is a handy thing to have in such a boat as ours given all the shoaling that exists. We had kept our upwind legs short and centered in the river. Just as we saw open water in the distance, we ran aground abruptly and were forced to wait for high tide to free us. Unfortunately, high tide did not occur until after dark and our contract with the Charter agency restricted us to sailing only during the day. With no lights and our home port across the bay, we decided that abiding by the terms of the contract was a smart move. Given that we had no power and that the next day was a work day for a job that I had just taken, I needed to contact the boss to tell him I was stranded and would not make it in for work. Our VHF was dead due to the electrical failure, so I broke out the windsurfer and sailed over to a neighboring anchored boat and asked if I could use their radio. The couple onboard stated that their radio was broken but they had brought along their cell phone and that I was welcome to use it. I left voice mail for the boss stating my problem. It turned out that the message was very fragmented due to poor signal quality, very few words that I said were understandable. The next day, we successsfully avoided the sand bar and made our way back to the dock sans power. Since then, I've used my cell phone on the bay from the kayak numerous times - typically when I'm running very late and I want to inform my wife not to worry. The cell phone network seems much better now then it was back when I got "stranded" several years earlier. I'm not sure that full bay coverage is a reality though. I now carry both a VHF and a cell phone when I paddle. My problem with the cell phone is that it is not submersible and I can't imagine how I'd use it successfully in the worst case condition where I'd get separated from my boat in challenging conditions. It's nowhere close to waterproof and it has tiny little buttons that I don't have a chance of using with neoprene gloves on. I'd probably die of dialing frustration before succumbing to hypothermia. I wonder if anyone makes a submersible cell phone with buttons that can be used with heavy gloves on. Greg Hollingsworth *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Greg Hollingsworth wrote: > > ...SNIP... > > I now carry both a VHF and a cell phone when I paddle. My problem with > the cell phone is that it is not submersible and I can't imagine how > I'd use it successfully in the worst case condition where I'd get > separated from my boat in challenging conditions. It's nowhere close to > waterproof and it has tiny little buttons that I don't have a chance of > using with neoprene gloves on. I'd probably die of dialing frustration > before succumbing to hypothermia. > > I wonder if anyone makes a submersible cell phone with buttons that can > be used with heavy gloves on. I also carry both a VHF (or two) and a cell phone. I have a cell phone that I purchased explicitly for sea kayaking. Unfortunately it is not submersible, but it can be used quite easily when double bagged (I use a plastic VHF baggie with a thin inner bag as a second line of defense). A good sea-kayaking cell phone has several key features: large buttons (that can be operated through the baggie with gloves on), one-button programming (for ease of dialing), clear sound quality when the volume is set high (so that you can hear it through the baggies), good fringe reception, a heavy-duty battery pack (I have three, but have never needed more than one), at least some minimal water resistance (it shouldn't fail the one-drop-of-water test!), and it should be ready to operate without "flipping" it open (Motorolas need not apply). I have had mine for about four years or so, and it has always worked reliably, including once when I used it to report that I had spotted someone paddling my friend's stolen kayak--an incident that found its way into Sea Kayaker magazine. Most numbers that I want to call require only that I punch one number and "send". You may have heard the joke, "What is the number for 911?" Well, with my cell phone that is no joke--the number for 911 is 9! The number for the US Coast Guard is 8, and the number for the Canadian RCC (Rescue Coordination Center) is 7. I also have one-number access to information, which will connect me to any listed phone number. I can't provide a recommendation for a current model, since the one I bought has been discontinued and I really haven't kept up. But I am sure that you can still find one with the above features. Although a submersible would of course be preferable. Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The senior trainer for the Annapolis Power Squadron told me the other night that the Coast Guard can be reached at #CG anywhere within the Chesapeake Bay area. However, I do know that not all cellular services (even in roam mode) have full coverage of the bay - I am aware of areas around Cecil Co that are like this, and there may be others. At 12:07 AM 1/22/99 -0500, ssives_at_erols.com wrote: >Ken, I've thought about this problem as well. I think the best solution >is to use your VHF for a glorified weather radio, and to just use your >cellular telephone in emergencies. Assuming you are just using it for >emergency communication (as opposed to group conversation on the water, >or trying to raise a barge that is about to hit you), the telephone will >do the same trick with a much greater range. I think the Coast Guard >can even be patched in. > > Last I heard, the cellular will cover the entire Chesapeake Bay area. > > Anyone else's thoughts? > > - Scott Ives > Greg Welker Current Designs Pisces CLC Cape Charles Modified West Wight Potter P-19 #448 "Good seamanship is using superior judgement to prevent the need to use superior skills." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
"Gregory D. Welker" wrote: > > The senior trainer for the Annapolis Power Squadron told me the other night > that the Coast Guard can be reached at #CG anywhere within the Chesapeake > Bay area. The Coast Guard web page states that "*CG" is the proper code. Their page also states some of the faults of using Cell phones over VHF radios... Here's what the Coast Guard says: U.S. Coast Guard CONSUMER FACT SHEET Office of Navigation Safety and Waterway Services Washington DC 20593-0001 CELLULAR TELEPHONES ON BOATS The Coast Guard does not advocate cellular phones as a substitute for the regular maritime radio distress and safety systems recognized by the Federal Communications Commission and the International Radio Regulations -- particularly VHF maritime radio. However, cellular phones can have a place on board as an added measure of safety. CELLULAR PHONE LIMITATIONS IN AN EMERGENCY o Cellular phones generally cannot provide ship to ship safety communications or communications with rescue vessels. If you make a distress call on a cellular phone, only the one party you call will be able to hear you. o Most cellular phones are designed for a land-based service. Their coverage offshore is limited, and may change without notice. o Locating a cellular caller is hard to do. If you don't know precisely where you are, the Coast Guard will have difficulty finding your location on the water. Note: In some areas, however, cellular providers have established a special code (*CG) which, if you are in range, will connect you directly to a Coast Guard Operations Center. This service may only work with the carrier to which you have subscribed. CELLULAR/VHF MARINE RADIO COMPARISON Cellular phones do provide the convenience of simple, easy-to-use, inexpensive, private and generally reliable telephone service to home, office, automobile or other locations. Placing a shore-to-ship call to someone with a cellular telephone is especially convenient. However, you cannot use your cellular phone outside the United States, and you may need a special agreement with your carrier to use it outside that carrier's local service area. VHF marine radios were designed with safety in mind. If you are in distress, calls can be received not only by the Coast Guard but by ships which may be in position to give immediate assistance. A VHF marine radio also helps ensure that storm warnings and other urgent marine information broadcasts are received. The Coast Guard announces these broadcasts on VHF channel 16. Timely receipt of such information may save your life. Additionally, your VHF marine radio can be used anywhere in the United States or around the world. On VHF radios, however, conversations are not private and individual boats cannot be assigned a personal phone number. If you are expecting a call, channel 16 or the marine operator's working channel must be continually monitored. SHOULD YOU RELY ON A CELLULAR PHONE EXCLUSIVELY? Actually there is no comparison between cellular phones and VHF marine radio. They normally provide different services. The cellular phone is best used for what it is, an on board telephone -- a link with shore based telephones. A VHF marine radio is intended for communication with other ships or marine installations -- and a powerful ally in time of emergency. If you have a portable or hand held cellular telephone, by all means take it aboard. If you are boating very far off shore, a cellular phone is no substitute for a VHF radio. But, if you are within cellular range, it may provide an additional means of communication. -------------- Fact Sheet # 24 January 1994 Coast Guard Consumer Fact Sheets are not copyrighted. They may be reproduced in whole or in part without permission. For further information contact the Coast Guard Consumer Affairs and Analysis Branch -- 1-800- 368-5647. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> on a stick) will greatly increase my range. Anyone know if this will > work? > > Ken Cooperstein One of the reasons they suggested using the rail is that it provides a ground for the antenna to work against. No SS rails on a kayak! You will need a 1/2 wave antenna which is basically an end fed dipole which has it's own ground "built in" BTW I am still working on a VHF J pole but had to order a connector for my standard radio. cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 05:47 PM 1/21/99 -0500, Kenneth Cooperstein wrote: >I have an Apelco 510 5w. handheld VHF radio that I use on my sailboat. >No one can hear me even 3 miles away unless I climb onto my cabintop. > >I can boost the range by using a 4' base-loaded s.s. whip antenna (3 db) >at the masthead, which is the standard solution. However, the folks at >Raytheon told me that I would do almost as well by just mounting the >whip on the rail, because that would get me almost to the limit of what >5w will do with a 3db antenna. Although Raytheon wouldn't quantify the >range, they felt that it would at least triple -- going from the rubber >ducky in the cockpit to the whip on the rail. > >I am considering bringing the whip antenna along on a paddle, in the >belief that if I need greater range, switching to the whip (handheld or >on a stick) will greatly increase my range. Anyone know if this will >work? > >Ken Cooperstein Hi Ken et al! Yes, you can use your whip from your boat, however, I do not believe that would help all that much. The real problem lies in the fact that normally VHF radio signals only travel in a straight line, much like a flashlight beam. When you are sitting in a kayak with your nose only a couple of feet above the water your horizon is quite close, probably only a mile or so. Even less if you are in the trough of a wave. When you mount your antenna at the masthead of a sail boat, you have effectively increased the horizon the antenna can see. I hope no one minds, but I have included a couple of small attachments to illustrate this. If you refer to figure 1, I have sketched this, greatly exaggerating the curvature for the purposes of illustration. (please, I know my artwork sucks . . .) Anyway, what you really need is a way to get your antenna up in the air a bit. I will present a method to make a very simple antenna and antenna mast that will allow you to elevate your radiation point an arbitrary distance above the waves (~18 ft in my illustration). Refer to figure 1 again. Visit your local electronics junkyard (or Radio Shack if nothing else), and find a ~25ft length of RG48 or preferably RG174 (thinner and more flexible) 50ohm coaxial cable with a connector on one end that matches the one on your radio (BNC is common). Carefully strip back about 18in of the outer jacket, and double the braided shield back over itself to expose 17.75in of the inner conductor. Wrap a bit of electrical tape around it to hold things in place. Visit a kite store or the like and get 6 pieces of fiberglass tubing 36 inch long by 1/2in OD (figure 2). Size is not real critical, consider your requirements for stowing it on your boat. Also get a length of the next larger size to make coupling ferrules. The OD if the smaller tubing should be a snug fit into the ID of the ferrule. Cut an appropriate number of ferrules with a very fine hacksaw, and superglue a ferrule onto one end of the 36in lengths. 6 of these as I have illustrated, fitted together, will be about 18ft long, and stiff enough that you can hold it straight up without excessive flex. Obviously, change any dimension to suit. Next, slide the prepared end of your coax into the tubing as illustrated in figure 2, and use epoxy or something in the uphill end to hold it in place. You should then be able to separate the sections starting from the top, and fold the entire thing up like a tent pole. The 17.75in antenna length should be OK for a 160MHz marine radio, but if you wish, you can use the following procedure to tune it before you permanently fix the upper end in place. Have a friend with another radio drive off down the beach until you can barely hear each others signals. Slide the braid back or forward to change the length of exposed center conductor in ~1/4in increments until you find the point where you have the best signal. (do this with the cable inside of the tubing) Your bud might have to move further away as you tune the antenna; you want to just be able to copy each other. Admittedly, this is a rather low tech approach, but I'm sure you will find it a vast improvement over the ol' ducky! Feel free to contact me if you need more info! ByeBye! Steve J. KG0MB *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I suspect you would actually decrease your signal due to the significant losses RG174 introduces. That assumes it will fly! cya > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of > Steve Jernigan > Sent: Friday, January 22, 1999 1:48 PM > To: Kenneth Cooperstein; paddlewise > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Boosting handheld VHF range > > > At 05:47 PM 1/21/99 -0500, Kenneth Cooperstein wrote: > >I have an Apelco 510 5w. handheld VHF radio that I use on my > sailboat. > >No one can hear me even 3 miles away unless I climb onto my cabintop. > > > >I can boost the range by using a 4' base-loaded s.s. whip > antenna (3 db) > >at the masthead, which is the standard solution. However, > the folks at > >Raytheon told me that I would do almost as well by just mounting the > >whip on the rail, because that would get me almost to the > limit of what > >5w will do with a 3db antenna. Although Raytheon wouldn't > quantify the > >range, they felt that it would at least triple -- going from > the rubber > >ducky in the cockpit to the whip on the rail. > > > >I am considering bringing the whip antenna along on a paddle, in the > >belief that if I need greater range, switching to the whip > (handheld or > >on a stick) will greatly increase my range. Anyone know if this will > >work? > > > >Ken Cooperstein > > Hi Ken et al! > Yes, you can use your whip from your boat, however, I do not > believe that > would help all that much. The real problem lies in the fact > that normally > VHF radio signals only travel in a straight line, much like a > flashlight > beam. When you are sitting in a kayak with your nose only a > couple of feet > above the water your horizon is quite close, probably only a > mile or so. > Even less if you are in the trough of a wave. When you mount > your antenna > at the masthead of a sail boat, you have effectively > increased the horizon > the antenna can see. I hope no one minds, but I have included > a couple of > small attachments to illustrate this. If you refer to figure 1, I have > sketched this, greatly exaggerating the curvature for the purposes of > illustration. (please, I know my artwork sucks . . .) > Anyway, what you really need is a way to get your antenna up > in the air a > bit. I will present a method to make a very simple antenna > and antenna mast > that will allow you to elevate your radiation point an > arbitrary distance > above the waves (~18 ft in my illustration). > Refer to figure 1 again. Visit your local electronics > junkyard (or Radio > Shack if nothing else), and find a ~25ft length of RG48 or > preferably RG174 > (thinner and more flexible) 50ohm coaxial cable with a > connector on one end > that matches the one on your radio (BNC is common). Carefully > strip back > about 18in of the outer jacket, and double the braided shield > back over > itself to expose 17.75in of the inner conductor. Wrap a bit > of electrical > tape around it to hold things in place. Visit a kite store or > the like and > get 6 pieces of fiberglass tubing 36 inch long by 1/2in OD > (figure 2). Size > is not real critical, consider your requirements for stowing > it on your > boat. Also get a length of the next larger size to make > coupling ferrules. > The OD if the smaller tubing should be a snug fit into the ID of the > ferrule. Cut an appropriate number of ferrules with a very > fine hacksaw, > and superglue a ferrule onto one end of the 36in lengths. 6 > of these as I > have illustrated, fitted together, will be about 18ft long, and stiff > enough that you can hold it straight up without excessive > flex. Obviously, > change any dimension to suit. Next, slide the prepared end of > your coax > into the tubing as illustrated in figure 2, and use epoxy or > something in > the uphill end to hold it in place. You should then be able > to separate the > sections starting from the top, and fold the entire thing up > like a tent > pole. The 17.75in antenna length should be OK for a 160MHz > marine radio, > but if you wish, you can use the following procedure to tune > it before you > permanently fix the upper end in place. Have a friend with > another radio > drive off down the beach until you can barely hear each > others signals. > Slide the braid back or forward to change the length of exposed center > conductor in ~1/4in increments until you find the point where > you have the > best signal. (do this with the cable inside of the tubing) > Your bud might > have to move further away as you tune the antenna; you want > to just be able > to copy each other. Admittedly, this is a rather low tech > approach, but I'm > sure you will find it a vast improvement over the ol' ducky! > Feel free to contact me if you need more info! ByeBye! Steve J. KG0MB > > ************************************************************** > ************* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > ************************************************************** > ************* > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:36 PM 1/22/99 -0500, Bob Denton wrote: >I suspect you would actually decrease your signal due to the significant >losses RG174 introduces. That assumes it will fly! Possibly, as Belden predicts ~2.5 db loss for 25ft of RG174 at 150MHz, and about 1.5db for RG58. RG59 might be a better choice with <1db, and would probably be a better match at the feedpoint, but flexibility might become a problem. You'd want to get the kind with the stranded center conductor, RG58 A/U or RG59 A/U. Probably not worth the bother, tho, as the main intent here is to get the antenna up out of the waves. I have used a similar setup for 2meter portable operation while backpacking with good results, way better than my dummy load :-) ByeBye! Steve J. BTW I noticed the drawings didn't make it onto the list. Be happy to e-mail if anyone wants 'em. S. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:55 PDT