A couple of thoughts on Jack Martin's report: a. I would say that 90 per cent of dry suited paddlers I have been with, including me, do not wear sufficient head gear of the nature that you recommend, i.e. neoprene or rubberized thermal-stretch. Lots of hoods, wool watchcaps, synchilla C-caps, etc. That is unless they are intending to practice rolling, whereupon out comes the neoprene or rubberized thermal stuff. This is especially true when air temperatures are in the mid-50s as you describe them the day Rhino died. It makes me rethink what I should be doing. I hate the stench of neoprene, so I need to get a hood made of the other stuff. b. It strikes me that the real killer in his case was the open dry-suit. Once it filled with water with no where to go, it would have done him in on two counts: 1) While we can't be certain exactly what insulation he had underneath, almost all the normal stuff we think it is prudent to wear such as 200 Polartec, synchilla, whathaveyou, just would not work very well once soaked. You and I have discussed this before...the wisedom of wearing one of the membraned thermal stretch products underneath either the rubberized or the non-rubberized. As it alone is pretty good at water temperatures into the high 40s, it would make a difference. Maybe a combination of stuff such as wearing a shortie of the stuff with other regular insulation, although certainly the full suit would be better. It breathes enough that it is not uncomfortable or likely to be any more stifling than normal fleece. But if the dry suit fails at the neck gasket or anywhere else such as a tear, the membraned watersports variety would be sufficient backup. 2) It would have been real difficult for Rhino alone to effect a self-rescue with the arms and legs of his suit filled with water. I don't know if you have done this in any rescue or cold water clinics down your way, but even a paddling jacket and paddling pants with neoprene closures can hold enough water to make getting back into a boat a big problem. I just don't hear any one talking about this or writing about it much. The few times I have been involved helping someone back in with that predicament, it was very difficult. In the water, water trapped in clothing is not much of a hinderance, but once one tries to lift arms or legs out of the water it is like being encased in cement. A dry suit filled with water and no ability to open up the wrists and ankle gaskets would be a real problem. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
A couple of comments on Ralph Diaz's comments on the article on Rhino's death --- I share Ralph's concerns: many of us don't wear the kind of head protection we need for survival in cold water. Some of us carry it, assuming we'll be able to get to in and pull it on if needed. Most of us drysuited paddlers assume that our drysuits will work adequately, and depend on this as our protection against hypothermia. I tend to paddle solo most of the time, even in winter --- and, yes, I'm the same guy who wrote the report on Rhino Hancock's death. I'm also an absolute believer in dry suits now --- Julio's concern noted from a PaddleWise post, but I still think that drysuits are good, and GoreTex drysuits are wonderful! For situations where I overheat, "rotocooling" works. I've bought into the idea that they work, but, like Ralph, I don't hang anything important on the fact that they always will, and I wear a full (non-Rubberized) Thermal Stretch suit under the Kokotat GoreTex suit; it's good and warm for dry insulation, but, if I ever blew a neck gasket or a zipper in the drysuit, this Thermal Stretch (actually the earlier Polartec 2000S form) will provide a survivable solution for an extended period. Maybe it's a "belt and suspenders" mentality, but redundancy is a viable option, as is survival. Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
2) It would have been real difficult for Rhino alone to effect a self-rescue with the arms and legs of his suit filled with water. I don't know if you have done this in any rescue or cold water clinics down your way, but even a paddling jacket and paddling pants with neoprene closures can hold enough water to make getting back into a boat -------------- I was watching one of the recent threads about paddling jackets with interest, because I haven't felt the need for specialzed outer gear(no winter paddling so far). I've gone along so far (perhaps naively) with just a summer or winter shell (along with a wet suit) which have protected me very nicely so far, that I wear under the PFD. The idea of pockets or lining filling up with water hadn't occured to me. I now think I could zip the pockets up religously (yeah, right!) to keep the water out and/or possibly cut a drainage hole in one corner of the pockets. I guess I'm going to have test the shells out by doing a few self rescues before I'll be convinced they're a danger. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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