Quite frankly I may be somewhat biased towards commercialism being in the business. If a company wants to mention a new product to a group of people I don't see a problem with it. But, there is a line that one must draw where a seller isn't jamming a product down customers throats. Coincidentally, I was just going to send a notice of some new maps I have published for paddling letting Paddlewisers know about them. I think I might wait and see what develops before I do. Kirby Stevens Victoria, B.C. Coastal Waters Recreation Victoria, B.C. Website: http://www.islandnet.com/~stevens/home.html *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
I think this disclaimer stuff is a throwback to the early days when the rec. groups were almost paranoid about commercialization of the news groups. Hey...we're all friends here and btw, I have this excellent little paddling property for sale, just one hour west of Miami. All the water you could ask for, lots of wild life and the grass has recently been "trimmed". Cya (BTW I have no connection what-so-ever to the Everglades Real Estate and Swamp Buggy Corporation) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> There are manufactures, outfitters, dealers and the like on the list who > take good care to maintain the integrity of the list. I can't help but feel > they have a lot more to offer the list but don't because of this constraint. > > They're the ones making, using and selling a wider variety of products than > any of us could ever hope to try. If one of them wants to make specific > points or offer reasonable opinions or has a hard to find product in stock, > so what? I agree with this. Occasional, short, on-topic offers would be a benefit, not a problem. Cheers, Jim *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 21 Apr 1999, Sisler, Clyde wrote: > > I may be opening a can of worms but IMHO: > > When making a postive comment about a product or service, many people feel > the need to offer a disclaimer that they gain no benefit from...., etc., > etc. Is this really neccessary? sometimes... if we know the person, and their integrity [after a while], probably not. someone new, maybe... > Yes, I know about the sp*ns*n crap that went on before and no, I don't want > blatant commercialism on the list either. > > There are manufactures, outfitters, dealers and the like on the list who > take good care to maintain the integrity of the list. I can't help but feel > they have a lot more to offer the list but don't because of this constraint. when the paddle discussion started, i sent private email, and then the same to the group, asking someone to please speak up, as they probably had very keen insights to the issue being discussed... no response. > They're the ones making, using and selling a wider variety of products than > any of us could ever hope to try. If one of them wants to make specific > points or offer reasonable opinions or has a hard to find product in stock, > so what? I personally would not be offended, particularily since I get the > occassional email from them already. > > Just my 2 cents worth. Guess I'll go crawl back into the archives now and > get out of the line of fire. i've said the same as you previously, but without success. hopefully this will let mfgr's etc, know we like HONEST answer [not a la sp*ns*nman] > BTW, the archives have grown quite a bit and I'm still in the D's of an > alphabetically sorted archive list I was sent. > > Clyde Sisler > http://csisler.com great archives!! thanks for all the hard work. mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com----http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark ---- # mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [\_| [\_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/paddler [index to club websites i administer] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- Fortune: Nothing pains some people more than having to think. --Martin Luther King, Jr. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Kirby Stevens wrote: > > If a company wants to mention a new product to a group of people I > don't see a problem with it. Nor I, but the key word is mention, as in a single announcement. > > Coincidentally, I was just going to send a notice of some new maps I > have published for paddling letting Paddlewisers know about them. I > think I might wait and see what develops before I do. Eeee, now there's a teaser. Come on, Kirby, don't be so coy. Here's my rule: if you've got something we might want, tell us about it. Steve -- Test Scoring & Reporting Services Sometimes, you never can University of Georgia always tell what you Athens, GA 30602-5593 least expect the most. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Kirby Stevens wrote: > > Quite frankly I may be somewhat biased towards commercialism being in the > business. If a company wants to mention a new product to a group of > people I don't see a problem with it. But, there is a line that one > must draw where a seller isn't jamming a product down customers throats. > > Coincidentally, I was just going to send a notice of some new maps I have > published for paddling letting Paddlewisers know about them. I think > I might wait and see what develops before I do. Kirby's pitches have not annoyed me. His maps are worthwhile (unsolicited plug), and I suspect many folks who benefit from them would not have known about them if not for this list. Even so, I am against relaxing the stricture against "commercial" postings. We seem to get plenty of info on new developments as it is. A savvy manufacturer would simply give one of his/her new featherdanglegewhoopstodoners to an esteemed contributor to Paddlewise ... and let nature take its course. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR -- Kirby: bribes accepted on Tuesdays only <g> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Even so, I am against relaxing the stricture against "commercial" postings. We seem to get plenty of info on new developments as it is. A savvy manufacturer would simply give one of his/her new featherdanglegewhoopstodoners to an esteemed contributor to Paddlewise ... and let nature take its course. --------- I can't/don't really disagree with you too terribly much. Someone, a commercial guy, I think, indicated there was a line that should not be crossed. Where is that line? Probably different for each person and I don't want a bunch of flaming when someone thinks it's been crossed. I personally subscribe to Campmor, REI, Music Boulivard lists but won't look at any unsolicited emails from someone I don't recognize. I know of one ISP and several web hosts offering free services, but there is too much advertising involved. So maybe the status quo is best (with maybe just a little relaxing :-)). *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> I believe a retailer (or mfr) generates respect (translates to sales) by his/her willingness to share expertise -- and that is of more real retail benefit to the retailer than the short term benefit of meeting a short-term need for a customer. ---------- The primary focus of any message/response should be to pass along on topic information. If, as part of this process, someone says something like, "we use this instead of that because....", "our experience tells us that...." or we sell more of these than those and we think....", that is supporting information (to me) and quite acceptable (to me). If they happen to mention they carry a product <as part of a discussion>, ok by me too. I assume their signature line would have appropiate contact information and if I choose to, I can contact them. All things considered, I personally prefer to deal with someone with whom I've already had some sort of contact and have developed some sort of respect for. Do not say you're having a sale or offering discounts on a special trip, etc. As part of a signature line, maybe indicate I can sign up for a mailing list or something through which that sort thing can be handled. Someone mentioned before that there is a line that shouldn't be crossed. If the line is crossed, a gentle reminder should be given. If the line is crossed again, well, that's why the list is by membership and why it is monitored. IMHO, of course. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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