No one has mentioned deploying a drogue or sea anchor prior to performing the paddle float self rescue. Never tried it myself, but it seems it might be helpful in holding the bow into the waves during pump out. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> No one has mentioned deploying a drogue or sea anchor prior to performing the paddle float self rescue. Never tried it myself, but it seems it might be helpful in holding the bow into the waves during pump out. That's an interesting line of thought. Hope someone pursues it. On an almost totally different subject, I was wondering about deploying a collaspable canvas bucket or such some thing as a sea anchor, assuming you had one and assuming it was at hand with a line attached. I've read stories about offshore sailors having to improvise and they've used things such oars, doors, anything that will add drag. Hmmmm, I guess the folks paddling doubles may have an advantage. You've heard about not having to run faster than the bear, just faster than your partner and I think John W. said something about having a taller partner in a lightning storm is advantageous. I think we just found another use for that irksome partner. Wrap a line around them and use them for a sea anchor. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
A sea anchor or drogue has a problem in that with most boats it won't hold the bow into the waves. Because the boat is still drifting backwards a little what happens is the boat yaws to one side or the other and balances out more like 30 to 45 degrees off center. If you put several boats tie together nose to tail only the last one in line will yaw. The yaw angle depends on such things as the hull shape (deeper forefoot and less stern keel = less yaw angle) and size of the drogue (bigger drogue = less angle). Your Express (or any Mariner) should point mostly stern into the waves if you put a big drogue off the stern. Tip: put a float on the drogue so it can't sink. It's a real pain to pull one up from any depth. To: Clyde I know of one paddler who converted his watchcap into and emergency sea anchor but I doubt it was very effective. My experiments with about a 15 inch diameter mini-liferaft sea anchor showed I needed something much bigger. I later made one that was two feet on each side (of four triangles) that worked much better (at least after I put a float on it). Matt Broze -----Original Message----- From: Gerald Foodman <klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net> To: paddlewise <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Monday, May 17, 1999 8:28 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Drogue plus paddlefloat? >No one has mentioned deploying a drogue or sea anchor prior to performing >the paddle float self rescue. Never tried it myself, but it seems it might >be helpful in holding the bow into the waves during pump out. > >Jerry > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
>A sea anchor or drogue has a problem in that with most boats it won't hold >the bow into the waves. Because the boat is still drifting backwards a >little what happens is the boat yaws to one side or the other and balances >out more like 30 to 45 degrees off center. If you put several boats tie Much better than being 90 degrees, no? >you put a big drogue off the stern. Tip: put a float on the drogue so it can't sink. It's a real pain to pull one up from any depth. Omagawd! You don't mean my paddle float do ya? :-) I thought you pulled some kind of trigger line/leash thingee on the commerical drouges/sea anchors that collaspes them before pulling them in. Or I guess maybe it's attached to the tail (skinny end of the funnel) so you kinda dump the water out of it before pulling it in. Oh, I get it. It might sink while deployed. I thought the weight of the boat would keep enough tension on it to keep it on/near the surface. I suppose wave action could cause slack that would allow it to sink some. >anchor but I doubt it was very effective. My experiments with about a 15 inch diameter mini-liferaft sea anchor showed I needed something much bigger. I later made one that was two feet on each side (of four triangles)that worked much better (at least after I put a float on it). Gee, even I could sew 4 triangles together. Some kind of sail material? The top of each triangle was 2 feet or the drouge had a 2 foot diameter? I presume the stiching wouldn't have to be too tight, just strong. How open/tight is the tail? I presume openness = drift. Is that desireable, assuming open seas? Clyde *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Clyde Sisler <clyde_sisler_at_email.msn.com> To: 'Paddlewise' <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Tuesday, May 18, 1999 4:27 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Drogue plus paddlefloat? >>A sea anchor or drogue has a problem in that with most boats it won't hold >>the bow into the waves. Because the boat is still drifting backwards a >>little what happens is the boat yaws to one side or the other and balances >>out more like 30 to 45 degrees off center. If you put several boats tie > >Much better than being 90 degrees, no? Yes but not nearly as nice as straight into the waves as most people imagine. > >>you put a big drogue off the stern. Tip: put a float on the drogue so it >can't sink. It's a real pain to pull one up from any depth. > > >Omagawd! You don't mean my paddle float do ya? :-) A fairly small float will do, just enough to keep it from sinking. The float also helps to keep it from spinning. > >I thought you pulled some kind of trigger line/leash thingee on the >commerical drouges/sea anchors that collaspes them before pulling them in. >Or I guess maybe it's attached to the tail (skinny end of the funnel) so you >kinda dump the water out of it before pulling it in. That is another way to retrieve them but requires an extra line which can get tangled with you, the kayak, the drogue, or the other line (which is another good reason to try and keep it from spinning). Boulter of Earth makes or made a large commercial one that (I believe--I haven't used one) inverts the drogue from the center and pulls it back into a long sleeve on the deck. > >Oh, I get it. It might sink while deployed. I thought the weight of the >boat would keep enough tension on it to keep it on/near the surface. I >suppose wave action could cause slack that would allow it to sink some. > >>anchor but I doubt it was very effective. My experiments with about a 15 >inch diameter mini-liferaft sea anchor showed I needed something much >bigger. I later made one that was two feet on each side (of four >triangles)that worked much better (at least after I put a float on it). > > >Gee, even I could sew 4 triangles together. Some kind of sail material? I used ripstop coated nylon but just about anything that sinks and is resonably strong would do. > >The top of each triangle was 2 feet or the drouge had a 2 foot diameter? > If I recall correctly I used 60 degree triangles about two feet on each side. Made loops to fasten four lines to at the end of each stitch line. The four lines joined together 3 or 4 feet in front of the drogue and one 20 to 30 foot nylon line leads back to the kayak. I used something lighter than parachute cord but parachute cord might be better. A line light enough to stretch to absorb shocks but heavy enough not to break even if holding several kayaks in a line would be my criterion. >I presume the stiching wouldn't have to be too tight, just strong. > >How open/tight is the tail? I presume openness = drift. Is that >desireable, assuming open seas? I made a hole on the small end of the funnel but put a drawstring on it so I could adjust it for best performance. I don't remember how my tests went but it has had about a two inch diameter hole left in it for years so I must have settled on that. With the float it all rolls up into about a 4" diameter ball. I have carried it on trips for years but never had to use it in earnest. I can deploy it by hooking it into a rotating bow line that runs from the cleats in front of my cockpit to the U-bolt at the bow. By rotating the bowline I can make it operate as though it is attached to the bow but actually tie it off at the cleat in front of the cockpit so I can release it quickly or cut the line if need be. A description of the rotating bow line set-up can be found in our "Owners Manual" under "Bow Painter". I made mine for emergency use, like finding myself in darkness off the coast with a big swell and surf running. My plan was to paddle out to sea set up the sea anchor and hunker down into my kayak to get some rest. The quicker deployment of the Boulter of Earth product makes it ideal for those beating into a headwind that need to stop for a short rest, water or food break to prevent loosing that hard earned ground (er, water?). Matt Broze www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Matt Broze wrote: SNIPPED > That is another way to retrieve them but requires an extra line which can > get tangled with you, the kayak, the drogue, or the other line (which is > another good reason to try and keep it from spinning). Boulter of Earth > makes or made a large commercial one that (I believe--I haven't used one) > inverts the drogue from the center and pulls it back into a long sleeve on > the deck. SNIPPED > I made mine for emergency use, like finding myself in darkness off the coast > with a big swell and surf running. My plan was to paddle out to sea set up > the sea anchor and hunker down into my kayak to get some rest. > The quicker deployment of the Boulter of Earth product makes it ideal for > those beating into a headwind that need to stop for a short rest, water or > food break to prevent loosing that hard earned ground (er, water?). I have used the DriftStopper from Boulter of Earth and can attest to its splendid design and stopping power. Of course, my first few uses after I had gone through the first runthrough were comical. Things like taking the float and throwing it out into the water and just see it floating around and looking like a jerk (you have to pull the thing out its on deck storage sleeve first) or stupidly coming on to it too fast in retrieval and having the Driftstopper wrap around my bow like an octupus!! It works but like with every thing, you need to practice. Pity the person who buys one, reads the instructions, puts it on his deck and then goes out expecting it all to work in a pinch. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
> The quicker deployment of the Boulter of Earth product makes it ideal for those beating into a headwind that need to stop for a short rest, water or food break to prevent loosing that hard earned ground (er, water?). Thanx for the good info, Matt. Hey Joq, did you ever get hold of Boulter? I assume you were looking for their drouge. BTW, I questioned the terms drouge and sea anchor a while back and came across the following definitions at http://www.biggideas.com/sea-anchor/html/drogues.html "Sea anchors are used to align a vessel with the seaway bow-to, that is facing directly into the wind and the sea. Since all boats are designed to take the seas in the bow a sea anchor should be a sailor's FIRST LINE OF DEFENSE. In other situations a suitable drogue may be towed off the stern to keep the stern aligned with the seaway as she is running or quartering the seas downwind." *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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