A) I would like to reiterate Bob's comments about neoprene and chlorine. This should also include exposure to chlorinated swimming pool water and ought to be extended to Lycra, Latex, and probably to Fuzzy Rubber and its relatives, too. Stohlquist and maybe others make a nylon "pool" spray skirt for that purpose to avoid the use of a good neoprene skirt. I even try to avoid the use of heavily chlorinated municipal water for washing some of these things, which may be too meticulous. B) I have used Sink the Stink on several occasions with good results. My question to Bob may be of interest to others, so I post it here: Last summer, I had a pair of leather/Gore-Tex hiking boots that got saturated with cat urine. After trying to clean them, I used some Sink the Stink out of desperation, and it eliminated about 90% of the odor. Other than having been saturated, the leather seems OK. Are there any negative effects those enzymes can have on leather in the long run? -Andy Knapp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Andy Knapp wrote: > > A) I would like to reiterate Bob's comments about neoprene and chlorine. > This should also include exposure to chlorinated swimming pool water and > ought to be extended to Lycra, Latex, and probably to Fuzzy Rubber and its > relatives, too. Let me add my "Amen" to Andy's and Bob's comments about the negative effects of chlorine. Though pool chlorine levels would not approach the concentration in the "chlorine bleach solution" someone recommended for sanitizing/cleaning neoprene, I have noticed definite effects on my neo paddling slippers when I have used them in a swimming pool repeatedly. I think it is the lengthy time of immersion in pool water which is the culprit. (BTW, the local pool has largely replaced chlorine with ozone -- very little odor, and the ozone is gone by the time the water gets back to the pool. Really a much better way!) And, yeah, let me add my "chemist's voice" to Andy's suspicion that latex, spandex, lycra, etc., will also be degraded by high chlorine levels. Latex probably is the most sensitive of that crowd, though I did not notice any significant effect from the one time I wore my paddle jacket in the pool. > B) I have used Sink the Stink on several occasions with good results. My > question to Bob may be of interest to others, so I post it here: > > Last summer, I had a pair of leather/Gore-Tex hiking boots that got > saturated with cat urine. After trying to clean them, I used some Sink the > Stink out of desperation, and it eliminated about 90% of the odor. Other > than having been saturated, the leather seems OK. Are there any negative > effects those enzymes can have on leather in the long run? Bob's stuff is good. I used the free sample he gave he and it worked fine. Re: effects on the leather: I don't think Bob's stuff will hurt the leather. In the interests of fairness, I should mention that Aquaseal distributes a competitive product (Mirazyme; mfr: McNett Outdoor, Bellingham, WA) which I got hold of first. I've used it several times, and it seems to work as well as Sink the Sink. It, also, is a microbe-based material, though they refer to "... a blend of 10 highly specialized, light-activated microbial elements ...," so I don't know if it is an enzyme stew or actual microbes. Bob's stuff has actual "bugs" in it! -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR chemist microbe fetishist <G> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
The longer the boots remained damp, the deeper into the leather the Sink the Stink bugs will penetrate and the more urine they will consume. Use at least as much liquid as the cat did. StS should have removed 100% of the smell. It has even completely removed skunk smell from clothing! I suspect you didn't saturate the boots completely. There is nothing in StS that would be detrimental to leather other then water. No long term effects of the bacteria that I am aware of. These are not enzymes, but actual bacteria. Tips: 1.Do not make StS too strong. We use an incredibly concentrated mix and if it's not diluted enough, the inhibitors in the mix will prevent the bugs from attaining full activity. 2.Prolong drying times. 3.Make sure there are no toxic chemicals from prior attempts..ie bleach, etc. which could kill or maim the little critters. 4. Make sure you are using a fresh mix and use ALL of the liquid in the 1/2 ozTurtle Pak. Shake the 4oz bottle well..the spores settle. 5. Use warm water up to 100F when possible. 6. Do not rise in fresh water after treatment. -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net] On Behalf Of Andy Knapp Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 12:00 AM To: PaddleWise Subject: [Paddlewise] Stinky Neoprene A) I would like to reiterate Bob's comments about neoprene and chlorine. This should also include exposure to chlorinated swimming pool water and ought to be extended to Lycra, Latex, and probably to Fuzzy Rubber and its relatives, too. Stohlquist and maybe others make a nylon "pool" spray skirt for that purpose to avoid the use of a good neoprene skirt. I even try to avoid the use of heavily chlorinated municipal water for washing some of these things, which may be too meticulous. B) I have used Sink the Stink on several occasions with good results. My question to Bob may be of interest to others, so I post it here: Last summer, I had a pair of leather/Gore-Tex hiking boots that got saturated with cat urine. After trying to clean them, I used some Sink the Stink out of desperation, and it eliminated about 90% of the odor. Other than having been saturated, the leather seems OK. Are there any negative effects those enzymes can have on leather in the long run? -Andy Knapp *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
McNett copied StS a few years after trying to get distribution for StS (We gave exclusive distribution for the scuba industry to Trident in the very beginning and I honor my agreements). They often came by during DEMA but we were committed to Trident. We tested McNetts product and StS is literally 1000s of times stronger. It would simply not be profitable for them to have the same level of active ingredients. One interesting thing is that most of our paddle distributors also distribute other products for McNett and they have told us the McNett product doesn't compare with Sink the Stink. To be fair, I haven't done any practical tests with their stuff, and I am a loyal customer of their adhesives and would have liked the opportunity to have them as a customer, but that's biz biz! cya -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net] On Behalf Of Dave Kruger Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 2:46 AM To: Andy Knapp Cc: PaddleWise Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stinky Neoprene Andy Knapp wrote: > > A) I would like to reiterate Bob's comments about neoprene and chlorine. > This should also include exposure to chlorinated swimming pool water and > ought to be extended to Lycra, Latex, and probably to Fuzzy Rubber and its > relatives, too. Let me add my "Amen" to Andy's and Bob's comments about the negative effects of chlorine. Though pool chlorine levels would not approach the concentration in the "chlorine bleach solution" someone recommended for sanitizing/cleaning neoprene, I have noticed definite effects on my neo paddling slippers when I have used them in a swimming pool repeatedly. I think it is the lengthy time of immersion in pool water which is the culprit. (BTW, the local pool has largely replaced chlorine with ozone -- very little odor, and the ozone is gone by the time the water gets back to the pool. Really a much better way!) And, yeah, let me add my "chemist's voice" to Andy's suspicion that latex, spandex, lycra, etc., will also be degraded by high chlorine levels. Latex probably is the most sensitive of that crowd, though I did not notice any significant effect from the one time I wore my paddle jacket in the pool. > B) I have used Sink the Stink on several occasions with good results. My > question to Bob may be of interest to others, so I post it here: > > Last summer, I had a pair of leather/Gore-Tex hiking boots that got > saturated with cat urine. After trying to clean them, I used some Sink the > Stink out of desperation, and it eliminated about 90% of the odor. Other > than having been saturated, the leather seems OK. Are there any negative > effects those enzymes can have on leather in the long run? Bob's stuff is good. I used the free sample he gave he and it worked fine. Re: effects on the leather: I don't think Bob's stuff will hurt the leather. In the interests of fairness, I should mention that Aquaseal distributes a competitive product (Mirazyme; mfr: McNett Outdoor, Bellingham, WA) which I got hold of first. I've used it several times, and it seems to work as well as Sink the Sink. It, also, is a microbe-based material, though they refer to "... a blend of 10 highly specialized, light-activated microbial elements ...," so I don't know if it is an enzyme stew or actual microbes. Bob's stuff has actual "bugs" in it! -- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
Booties are a little more difficult because of the constant compression-decompression on the sole. It tends to work nutrients and bacteria deep into the neoprene so make sure the booties stay damp long enough for the microbes to work their way through to the back of the sole. For really serious cases, I'd suggest filling the booties with STS and walk around in them or even stomping in a tub with StS ala making wine. On multiple dive trips in the Caribbean, where you stay in you Polartec all day, I used to just jump in a dip tank of StS every couple of dives....worked like a champ. StS has been responsible for rescuing booties condemned by a non diving spouse and other booties have been allowed back in the house after an StS treatment. Let me know how it works out! cya -----Original Message----- From: Julio MacWilliams [mailto:juliom_at_cisco.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 1999 2:47 PM To: BDenton_at_aquagulf.com Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Stinky Neoprene Bob, I have a question for you. I have treated my neoprene suit and polypropilene and capilene with great success. But my neoprene booties are another story. When they dry out they still stink, a little less though. Can you recommend something? thanks! - Julio p.s. You have invented an air mix for deep sea diving, an LED beacon, sink the stink... are you a descendant of Leonardo da Vinci? :-) > > Disclaimer: I am the inventor and manufacturer of a product called Sink the > Stink which is sold through dive shops, kayak shops and river outfitters > specifically for removing odor from neoprene, polartec and capaline. > > NEVER NEVER NEVER use bleach on wet suits or any river/dive equipment. It > significantly shortens the life of the equipment and reduces it's > performance. > > Neoprene is a tough problem because it is porous and provides an ideal > breeding ground for bacteria. As neoprene is compressed (walking, sitting, > stretching, diving, etc) it sucks nutrients deep into it's interior. > Microbes begin feasting on all this stuff and work their way towards the > food source, where surface treatments can't follow. These microbes produce > all sorts of nasty byproducts, many of which produce odors and others > destroy the materials and adhesives used in the manufacture of wets suits > and polartechs. These products include nitric and sulfuric acid as well as > hydrogen sulfide. > > If you use bleach or any other caustic product, you're not only damaging > your gear, you are only treating the bugs on the surface. When the item > dries, many of the microbes will go into a state of suspended animation and > wait for the next paddle or dive to go back to work. > > The only way to really treat this stuff is to fight fire with fire. I, in > conjunction with a lab, developed a synergistic mixture of bugs to out > compete the "stinker bugs" for the same food source. They were trained to > eat urine and many of the other naturally occurring nutrients found in sea > and river water. A quick but thorough rinse in Sink the Stink (1/2 oz in > 10-20 gallons of warm water) and hang to dry. During the drying process the > StS bugs biologically scour the gear and when it dries the odor is gone, not > just masked. There is some residual effect on subsequent uses. StS is > hypoallergenic and unlike many "biodegradable" products it does not mimic > estrogens when dumped in the environment. > > If this sounds like an ad, it is in a way. I can tell you that StS is more a > labor of love then a big moneymaker. Some of the large companies have tried > to copy StS (Like McNett) and discovered that you can't make a product like > StS both effective and profitable. That's why I have a real job as well! > > If anyone would like a sample e-mail Mary at: gulfstream_at_ibm.net > <mailto:gulfstream_at_ibm.net> . We'll be happy to send you some. And PLEEEZZEE > don't trash your wet suits and polartechs with bleach... > > If anyone is interested in further information, your welcome to e-mail me > directly. > > Cya > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net] On Behalf Of Philip Torrens > Sent: Tuesday, May 25, 1999 2:36 PM > To: clyde_sisler_at_email.msn.com; > paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Saturday (was faq?) > > > > > >From: "Clyde Sisler" <clyde_sisler_at_email.msn.com> > huge snip > >someone was asking about > >the effect of salt water on neoprene wet suits. Part of > the instructor's > >repsonse include throwing the suit in the washing machine > to remove stink? > >I vaugely recall some discussion on the list about this. I > don't recall > >washing machines and think I remember something about a > mild bleach > >solution. Would some enlighten me? This isn't an idle > question. By the > >end of the trip, my booties were stinking worse than the > rest of me and I > >like to keep the smell spread out equally. > >Clyde Sisler > >http://csisler.com > > When I was helping out in a dive shop, we used to hand wash > the rental > wetsuits out in a very mild solution of Dettol (spelling?) a > house hold > cleanser available at most grocery and drug stores. It was > even effective at > de-stinking suits that had been wet from the inside, if you > get my drift. > Rinse throughly in fresh water after the Dettol solution. > and air dry. > > Cheers, > > Philip > > > N49°16' W123°08' > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ > *************************************************************************** > > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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