Re: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road

-----Original Message-----
From: Kenneth Cooperstein <cprstnc1_at_optonline.net>
To: paddlewise, paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:21 PM
Subject: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road


Ken Cooperstein wrote:
>Indeed the 12 knot shell I was referring to would be an eight, which can
>easily keep up this pace for a three mile race.  The reason it has
>difficulty maneuvering is not because everyone is facing aft (the cox
>faces forward and he steers) but because the hull is very long and the
>rudder is very small.  A single can do the same course at approximately
>eight knots.

But then there is no cox to steer.

>It would appear that you are basing your assertions on the usual formula
>used for displacement hulls (i.e. 1.33 x square root of LWL).  However,
>when hulls become very narrow (a racing single has a beam of only 11")
>this formula is no longer accurate, as is demonstrated by Hobie cats all
>the time.  If you look at an eight moving at speed, you do not see the
>usual bow wave that displacement hulls cannot climb over.

I'll leave that last line about climbing bow waves for John Winters to deal
with.

Gee, thanks for the lessons in hydrodynamics but actually I based my
comparisons on the Olympic and world record times of the best athletes in
each field not on any formulas at all. I thought that was obvious when I
mentioned the rules advantage that shells and skulls have by not being
limited to a certain length and width. Of course if you want to compare a
novice kayaker in a rental kayak on a lake with eight guys who are training
to race in an 11" wide by 60 foot long shell there is likely to be a greater
difference. You compared an eight oared racing shell's speed to that of a
rank novice kayaker in a wide novice single kayak, lets try to be fair here.
The shell has maybe 50 times the horsepower and you can only go 4 times as
fast? Gee what's the matter.
Of course you yourself would have trouble keeping up with Greg Barton in his
kayak as well (and I used to own a pedal boat that could stomp double sculls
by a dozen boat lenghts in a 1000 meter race) so lets stick to comparing
apples to apples, which is what I tried to do.
I often drafted rowers in single and double sculls but then I was probably a
stronger paddler than they were rowers. (And between the narrow hull and all
that surging back and forth they are difficult to get much help from by
drafting them anyway--but being behind a row boat is a lot safer than in
being front of one so there is the terror factor to consider as well if you
pass them).
I think comparing the best paddlers and rowers using the same number of
powerplants in each craft gives a more equal basis for comparison (except
for that rule advantage rowers enjoy).
Speaking of Ocean shells I have won races in my kayak that included single
and double racing sculls as well as more seaworthy fast rowboats and I'm no
Greg Barton. In any human powered race I entered I always hoped the water
would be rough enough to hinder the rowboats and canoes but not so rough
that the race got unnecessarily cancelled. Slows them sculls right down when
they can't get their low slung oars back for the next stroke without bashing
them through a wave.
In one Round Shaw Row I was in the lead rowboats each going their chosen
direction around the island collided head on with each other. A few broken
oars but luckily no one was seriously hurt. Most rowers have had their own
little surprises.

>While some racing kayaks are very narrow and fast, most of the folks
>here are paddling boats with 23" beams.  When I'm out in the harbor in
>my rec racer (13" beam shell), the kayakers stop paddling to  see if
>they have run aground.  The only way you could think your kayak was just
>a hair slower than a shell is if you based your conclusion solely on
>theory or were racing against an Alden Ocean Shell.

Looks like there was another way. Why does it seem to me that you are not a
kayaker?

BTW based on Olympic records, sculls (each person uses two oars) are about
two to five percent faster than shells (each person uses one oar), shells
are eight to thirteen percent faster than kayaks and kayaks are eight or
nine percent faster than canoes. World records for double sculls are about
ten percent faster than singles, quads are about seven percent faster than
doubles and eight oared shells (with coxswain) are about five percent faster
than quad sculls.


Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com


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