Barbara Kossy wrote: <<Technically kayaks do have right of way. However, I'd rather be alive and in one piece, than right.>> I'm in complete agreement. As a former boss of mine once said, "The cemeteries are full of people who had the right of way..." Liz Miller *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
-----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Cooperstein <cprstnc1_at_optonline.net> To: paddlewise, paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Wednesday, June 02, 1999 9:21 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road Ken Cooperstein wrote: >Indeed the 12 knot shell I was referring to would be an eight, which can >easily keep up this pace for a three mile race. The reason it has >difficulty maneuvering is not because everyone is facing aft (the cox >faces forward and he steers) but because the hull is very long and the >rudder is very small. A single can do the same course at approximately >eight knots. But then there is no cox to steer. >It would appear that you are basing your assertions on the usual formula >used for displacement hulls (i.e. 1.33 x square root of LWL). However, >when hulls become very narrow (a racing single has a beam of only 11") >this formula is no longer accurate, as is demonstrated by Hobie cats all >the time. If you look at an eight moving at speed, you do not see the >usual bow wave that displacement hulls cannot climb over. I'll leave that last line about climbing bow waves for John Winters to deal with. Gee, thanks for the lessons in hydrodynamics but actually I based my comparisons on the Olympic and world record times of the best athletes in each field not on any formulas at all. I thought that was obvious when I mentioned the rules advantage that shells and skulls have by not being limited to a certain length and width. Of course if you want to compare a novice kayaker in a rental kayak on a lake with eight guys who are training to race in an 11" wide by 60 foot long shell there is likely to be a greater difference. You compared an eight oared racing shell's speed to that of a rank novice kayaker in a wide novice single kayak, lets try to be fair here. The shell has maybe 50 times the horsepower and you can only go 4 times as fast? Gee what's the matter. Of course you yourself would have trouble keeping up with Greg Barton in his kayak as well (and I used to own a pedal boat that could stomp double sculls by a dozen boat lenghts in a 1000 meter race) so lets stick to comparing apples to apples, which is what I tried to do. I often drafted rowers in single and double sculls but then I was probably a stronger paddler than they were rowers. (And between the narrow hull and all that surging back and forth they are difficult to get much help from by drafting them anyway--but being behind a row boat is a lot safer than in being front of one so there is the terror factor to consider as well if you pass them). I think comparing the best paddlers and rowers using the same number of powerplants in each craft gives a more equal basis for comparison (except for that rule advantage rowers enjoy). Speaking of Ocean shells I have won races in my kayak that included single and double racing sculls as well as more seaworthy fast rowboats and I'm no Greg Barton. In any human powered race I entered I always hoped the water would be rough enough to hinder the rowboats and canoes but not so rough that the race got unnecessarily cancelled. Slows them sculls right down when they can't get their low slung oars back for the next stroke without bashing them through a wave. In one Round Shaw Row I was in the lead rowboats each going their chosen direction around the island collided head on with each other. A few broken oars but luckily no one was seriously hurt. Most rowers have had their own little surprises. >While some racing kayaks are very narrow and fast, most of the folks >here are paddling boats with 23" beams. When I'm out in the harbor in >my rec racer (13" beam shell), the kayakers stop paddling to see if >they have run aground. The only way you could think your kayak was just >a hair slower than a shell is if you based your conclusion solely on >theory or were racing against an Alden Ocean Shell. Looks like there was another way. Why does it seem to me that you are not a kayaker? BTW based on Olympic records, sculls (each person uses two oars) are about two to five percent faster than shells (each person uses one oar), shells are eight to thirteen percent faster than kayaks and kayaks are eight or nine percent faster than canoes. World records for double sculls are about ten percent faster than singles, quads are about seven percent faster than doubles and eight oared shells (with coxswain) are about five percent faster than quad sculls. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
While the courtesy of allowing paddlers to navigate without trouble from other vessels would be nice, it can't be expected. I am reminded of my childhood sailing instructor who said, "Right of way is given, not taken". Small boats prevail in our family so we have developed what we call the Gross Tonnage Rule. It states that if the other vessel is bigger than yours- STAY OUT OF ITS WAY. Yes, the rules of the road give human powered vessels the right of way but there are also exceptions. According to the Navigation Rules for International and Inland Waters (which is a required document aboard all vessels 12 meters or more in length) a common exception that paddlers may encounter is in narrow channels. Keep in mind that what looks like a huge channel to us may in fact be a very narrow channel to a larger vessel or one constrained by its draft (like a sailboat with a keel). Rule 9. - Narrow Channels - states that a vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within a narrow channel or fairway. I won't bore everyone with the details of other rules, but suffice it to say that there are others that relate to avoiding collisions and the responsibilities between vessels that would apply to paddlers. Please understand, I am not "taking the other side". I am only pointing out that there are times you may have to grant right of way. Being right may not be very satisfying if you are all wet (or dead right as someone pointed out). There is also a bigger issue-- that of visibility. I have had many close calls while out paddling. I assumed that most of them were intentional or serious carelessness on the part of the other boat. I have since realized that kayaks can be VERY difficult to see, especially when people are not looking for them. I have had numerous instances where I have startled sailors and fishermen by saying hello. They had no idea I was there. I was sure they could see me but conditions such as the sun and waves can make a low-lying boat near impossible to see. Since that revelation I have worn my 90-decibel whistle around my neck and at the ready instead of stowed on deck. There is no excuse for the PWC that makes repeated passes to bother you but there is a strong possibility that the boat that came "close aboard" never saw you. Ed Bean I had a series of strokes last night :) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 6/9/99 4:31:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, edbean_at_pamlico-nc.com writes: << I assumed that most of them were intentional or serious carelessness on the part of the other boat. I have since realized that kayaks can be VERY difficult to see, especially when people are not looking for them >> This brings up a point that maybe hasn't been emphasized in this thread -- the need to make ourselves as visible as possible. Something I read/heard/learned (I'm not sure which or where) long ago has caused me to be very concerned about making myself as visible as possible. My kayak is red, my PFD is yellow, my hat is orange, my paddling jacket is red, my paddle blades are yellow. These may not look as fashionable in the store, but in the back of my mind I hope they help make me more visible on the water. Ralph *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
My experience noticing other paddlers is that the difference between light and dark colored paddle blades makes more difference than all the other color factors combined. What I always see are the light colored paddle blades reflecting light as the are rapidly moving and attracting attention. Black or dark colored blades are far less visible and then it is very hard to see the kayaker no matter the boat color or what they are wearing. Once I noticed two kayaker's white paddle blades about a mile in the distance. I noticed them several more times as we closed the distance. When we were 50 to 100 yards apart all of a sudden there were three paddlers instead of two. Where did the third one come from? Then I saw it his paddle blades were black and that made him nearly invisible even though his clothes and kayak were visible colors. if you use dark colored paddle blades I suggest you add a large area of a brighter color or reflectorized tape. Matt Broze -----Original Message----- From: UncleRalph_at_aol.com <UncleRalph_at_aol.com> To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Date: Wednesday, June 09, 1999 6:46 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Rules of the Road >In a message dated 6/9/99 4:31:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >edbean_at_pamlico-nc.com writes: > ><< I assumed that most of them were > intentional or serious carelessness on the part of the other boat. I have > since realized that kayaks can be VERY difficult to see, especially when > people are not looking for them >> > >This brings up a point that maybe hasn't been emphasized in this thread -- >the need to make ourselves as visible as possible. Something I >read/heard/learned (I'm not sure which or where) long ago has caused me to be >very concerned about making myself as visible as possible. My kayak is red, >my PFD is yellow, my hat is orange, my paddling jacket is red, my paddle >blades are yellow. These may not look as fashionable in the store, but in >the back of my mind I hope they help make me more visible on the water. > >Ralph >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ >*************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.gasp-seakayak.net/paddlewise/ ***************************************************************************
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