Robert wrote: >Heimlich will not clear water before beginning CPR. Prior to CPR, first >clearing and maintining the airway: "The swipe," Frank refers to in the >full text of his post. If a neck fracture is suspected, the head should be >steadied first. Heimlich is used when the airway is obstructed as evidence >of resistance to ventillation. As a matter of routine, the Rosen, Soto and >Harles article points out just how dangerous the Heimlich is because of the >possiblity of further injury in neck fractures or injuries and because >every instant of delay in delivering ventilation increases the probability >of brain injury. This should read: Heimlich will not clear water before beginning CPR. Prior to CPR, first clear and maintain the airway: this is the neumonic "The swipe," Frank refers to in the full text of his post..... *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
|Several people on the trip where this accident took place were trained |and up to date on rescue skills and CPR, and did everything possible. I |do not mean to second guess what they did. One of them, however, |suggested doing the Heimlich first if we are ever in the same situation, |as it has since been suggested to him from several different sources. |I have had only a basic CPR course and I don't remember this being |discussed (just clearing the airway by sweeping the mouth with your |fingers). I'm sure there are people on this list with more advanced |training. Is using the Heimlich before CPR something included in |rescue/first aid training specific to watersports or wilderness first |aid, etc? Is this something paddlers with CPR training should know? This was covered in my first responder class a few years ago. I'm dont know if it is covered in CPR classes. Hope this helps... Dan McCarty *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You read the post correclty: Most deaths by "drowning" result from asphyxiation. If water enters the trachea, it spasms and closes shut. The water doesn't get into the lungs. The victim suffocates. Lungs full of water might be evidence of murder... the victim died before being placed in the water. ---------- >From: Mlberr_at_aol.com >To: r.cline_at_mindspring.com >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Heimlich & CPR >Date: Sat, Jun 12, 1999, 21:44 > >does that mean that when someone drowns, they DON'T have water in their >lungs??? i always thought that water in the lungs was THE indication of >drowning??? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yeah... where's Quincy? I found another source that seemed to be a fairly comprehensive and up-to-date resource on drowning: Bove, Alfred A. (ed). 1997. "Diving Medicine" 3rd Edition. Saunders. (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0721660568/qid=929462965/sr=1-6/002- 4098079-8080248). I browsed the section on "near-drowning" and there were some updates and a review on aspiration of water during drowning. The book was $73.00 plus tax locally and $69 at Amazon.com, so I passed on buying it for now at least. Bove's review, as best I can recall from my cursory scan of the chapter, reported that most of the earlier studies on drowning which involved haemodilution and haemoconcentration from fresh water vs. salt water were done on animals with endotrachial tubes. Actual drownings or near drownings seem to present with the level of blood chemistry changes caused by the water itself. Pulmonary edema appears to be caused from asphyxia rather than water intrusion, this is supported by the articles I referenced you from medline. However, the chapter in Diving Medicine cited research that claimed there was no water aspiration in 15 to 20% of drownings... this is in contrast to the earlier research that said that there was no water aspiration in 80 to 95% of drownings. However,... because...because... there was not the problem with heamodilution (fresh water) that was earlier suspected based on the experimental drownings in animal studies. Diving medicine did go on to discuss near-drowning treatment of pulmonary infections as a consequence of water aspiration... namely, the aspiration of silicates and diatom and other bacteria. IN summary, it appears that the 3rd edition of diving medicine concurs that there is aspriation of water in at least a certain percentage of near-drownings. The conseqences are not what they were first thought to be, regarding blood chemistry changes. The bottom line in answer to the original post concerning Heimlich first as a routine measure is: It's a waste of precious, precious time, and could additionally harmful for a cervical or other injury. If you happen to find me upside down in my boat and not breathing... you can skip the Heimlich! Swipe, inflate. If no pulse... go into the cpr cycles. ---------- >From: Mlberr_at_aol.com >To: robtcline_at_earthlink.net >Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Heimlich & CPR >Date: Mon, Jun 14, 1999, 20:34 > >so the trachea opens upon death but the larynx remains shut, tightly enough >to keep out water? hmmm seems strange..but i'll checkout the sources you >mentioned... thanks for providing them...but a forensic pathologist might be >the best source... where's quincey when you need him.... > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It may be useful when a diver chokes on a piece of steak underwater? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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