Hello folks! I am just back from my first overnight kayaking trip. I am so just back that I am not showered and none of my stuff is either hanging to dry or in the washer, which shows how eager I am to e-mail. The punchline of the weekend is that we had a wonderful time, and plan to have an even better time next trip, when we will have tent poles as well as a tent. Did you know you can use half your paddle as a tent pole to hold up a two-person dome tent (some very intricate cordage to the local trees did the rest of the work)? I pass this info along as it may be potentially useful to you at some point. Here's the advice I want: I am a _way_ beginner paddler, and we were on a Class 1 river yesterday and today. The only problem I encountered was "spinning out" on turns. The current was pretty swift (by my standards) and I found early on that, as I was going around bends, the current would push my stern so that the boat would swing and I would end up sidewise to the river. I figured out eventually that if I anticipated this happening and used my paddle as a rudder to counter the force of the current on my stern, I did better, and would swing through the turn and end up facing downstream (though if I waited too long, and the boat was already beginning to spin out before I ruddered, there was too much braking action and I lost momentum). I feel that I figured out a workable solution that saved me a lot of frustration over the two days' trip, but I'd love to hear from more experienced paddlers how you anticpate and deal with this phenomenon, if you don't mind taking a few minutes to enlighten a relative beginner. We plan to do another overnight on the same river in July, and will have some friends with us who are even more beginning than I am; I would love to have some tips to pass on to them. Su Penn p.s. This was in Michigan, where that canoeist has just been conviected (yes, convicted, as of, I think, yesterday. But not sentenced yet) of criminal profanity in front of children. I'm sorry to say I am guilty under the same law; taking out at a boat launch at the end of the trip, I slipped on the slimy sloped bottom and uttered a four-letter word in the presence of three boys about ten years old who were hunting crawdads nearby. They forgave me when I apologized, but I wonder if that would have been a mitigating circumstance at my trial? *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Sue: The video "Essential Boat control" is excellent. The first go-round with it will have your head spinning out of contol trying to deal with so much information. The "coolest" video I've seen on WW kayaking. Robert ---------- >From: Su Penn <supenn_at_voyager.net> >To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subject: [Paddlewise] First Overnight; Paddling Advice Please >Date: Sun, Jun 13, 1999, 19:08 > >Hello folks! I am just back from my first overnight kayaking trip. I am so >just back that I am not showered and none of my stuff is either hanging to >dry or in the washer, which shows how eager I am to e-mail. The punchline >of the weekend is that we had a wonderful time, and plan to have an even >better time next trip, when we will have tent poles as well as a tent. Did >you know you can use half your paddle as a tent pole to hold up a >two-person dome tent (some very intricate cordage to the local trees did >the rest of the work)? I pass this info along as it may be potentially >useful to you at some point. > >Here's the advice I want: I am a _way_ beginner paddler, and we were on a >Class 1 river yesterday and today. The only problem I encountered was >"spinning out" on turns. The current was pretty swift (by my standards) and >I found early on that, as I was going around bends, the current would push >my stern so that the boat would swing and I would end up sidewise to the >river. I figured out eventually that if I anticipated this happening and >used my paddle as a rudder to counter the force of the current on my stern, >I did better, and would swing through the turn and end up facing downstream >(though if I waited too long, and the boat was already beginning to spin >out before I ruddered, there was too much braking action and I lost >momentum). I feel that I figured out a workable solution that saved me a >lot of frustration over the two days' trip, but I'd love to hear from more >experienced paddlers how you anticpate and deal with this phenomenon, if >you don't mind taking a few minutes to enlighten a relative beginner. > >We plan to do another overnight on the same river in July, and will have >some friends with us who are even more beginning than I am; I would love to >have some tips to pass on to them. > >Su Penn > >p.s. This was in Michigan, where that canoeist has just been conviected >(yes, convicted, as of, I think, yesterday. But not sentenced yet) of >criminal profanity in front of children. I'm sorry to say I am guilty under >the same law; taking out at a boat launch at the end of the trip, I slipped >on the slimy sloped bottom and uttered a four-letter word in the presence >of three boys about ten years old who were hunting crawdads nearby. They >forgave me when I apologized, but I wonder if that would have been a >mitigating circumstance at my trial? > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yep. No doubt, Su: That judge had never paddled before. Robert ---------- Su Penn wrote: > >p.s. This was in Michigan, where that canoeist has just been conviected >(yes, convicted, as of, I think, yesterday. But not sentenced yet) of >criminal profanity in front of children. I'm sorry to say I am guilty under >the same law; taking out at a boat launch at the end of the trip, I slipped >on the slimy sloped bottom and uttered a four-letter word in the presence >of three boys about ten years old who were hunting crawdads nearby. They >forgave me when I apologized, but I wonder if that would have been a >mitigating circumstance at my trial? > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Su wrote: > Here's the advice I want: I am a _way_ beginner paddler, and we were on a > Class 1 river yesterday and today. The only problem I encountered was > "spinning out" on turns. The current was pretty swift (by my standards) and > I found early on that, as I was going around bends, the current would push > my stern so that the boat would swing and I would end up sidewise to the > river. This generally only happens when you are traveling slower than the current. Let the current push you up to its speed, or paddle fast enough to get up to speed with the current. When you're actually moving with the river, your boat speed relative to the river speed is 0. (Although the trees and brush on the bank are WHOOSHING past you!). I assume you were already paddling at river speed until you hit a turn. The water on the outside of the corner accelerated as it rushed around the turn. You could either accelerate to keep up with it, and keep the river's effect on your boat nil; or you could paddle toward the inside of the turn, where the water moves more slowly, and you'll be less likely to "spin out". The only other thing I can think of is that you might be "eddying out". Your bow gets into the eddy, where slower, or backwards-moving water is. Your stern is still out in the flow, and you get spun around. Unless you want to stop and rest, or have an easy spot to paddle upstream, avoid eddies. Shawn *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Su, I'm a relatively inexperienced with whitewater kayaking, but I know that whitewater kayakers try to avoid eddylines unless doing tricks in them. Eddylines can flip or tip a less stable whitewater boat, so WW paddlers generally try to cross them as quickly as possible. On the other hand, this decreased stability area makes all sorts of tricks possible, so there is a whole other "school" of boaters that hangs out there, and in holes, waves, etc. In my 17' sea kayak, running across the eddyline will rock you pretty good, but not dump me. If you stay right next to it, you can usually move along at a pretty good clip. Unfortunately, I've had to learn about paddling rivers with eddylines at the expense of not having a big lake or ocean nearby to play on. Shawn Su Penn wrote: > This sounds about exactly right. Another list member suggested that I learn > to recognize the "eddy line" and stay on or outside it. Now I'm itching to > get back up to that river and give it another try! Around where I live, the > rivers are too slow to cause these kinds of problems. > > Thanks, > > Su -- ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "A person not related to nature is of course neurotic because he is not adapted to reality" -Carl Jung *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn, Well, I wouldn't exactly say white water kayakers avoid eddies. They are places of relative calm where you can rest on the river. If you need to scout a rapid and pick your line, you use an eddy. When the group spreads out too much and you need to regroup, you jump in an eddy. In fact, the whole process of running a river is essentailly heading from one eddy to another. Just as a good efficient forward stroke is the essence of enjoying sea kayaking, comfort entering and exiting eddies is the essence of white water kayaking. When learning the sport, you spend many hours circling across eddylines --- until the way it feels and how you need to lean the boat becomes second nature. This, by the way, is one of the benefits to a sea kayaker of learning at least the basics of white water paddling. After you get that gut feeling for how to deal with eddies, tide rips and other powerful current gradients in the ocean stop being scarey and become just another feature of our playground to respect and enjoy. --Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: Shawn W. Baker [SMTP:baker_at_montana.com] > Sent: Tuesday, June 15, 1999 12:54 PM > To: Su Penn; PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] First Overnight; Paddling Advice Please > > Hi Su, > > I'm a relatively inexperienced with whitewater kayaking, but I know that > whitewater kayakers try to avoid eddylines unless doing tricks in them. > Eddylines can flip or tip a less stable whitewater boat, so WW paddlers > generally try to cross them as quickly as possible. On the other hand, > this decreased stability area makes all sorts of tricks possible, so > there is a whole other "school" of boaters that hangs out there, and in > holes, waves, etc. > > In my 17' sea kayak, running across the eddyline will rock you pretty > good, but not dump me. If you stay right next to it, you can usually > move along at a pretty good clip. > > Unfortunately, I've had to learn about paddling rivers with eddylines at > the expense of not having a big lake or ocean nearby to play on. > Shawn > > Su Penn wrote: > > This sounds about exactly right. Another list member suggested that I > learn > > to recognize the "eddy line" and stay on or outside it. Now I'm itching > to > > get back up to that river and give it another try! Around where I live, > the > > rivers are too slow to cause these kinds of problems. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Su > > -- > ____©/______ > ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ > "A person not related to nature is of course neurotic because he is not > adapted to reality" -Carl Jung > ************************************************************************** > * > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************** > * *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mattson, Timothy G wrote: > Well, I wouldn't exactly say white water kayakers avoid eddies. They are > places of relative calm where you can rest on the river. If you need to > scout a rapid and pick your line, you use an eddy. When the group spreads > out too much and you need to regroup, you jump in an eddy. I said,"kayakers try to avoid eddyLINES unless doing tricks in them". Perhaps I should have said, inexperienced boater that I am, _I_ try to avoid eddylines, except to cross quickly into the calm of the eddy! :) > When learning the sport, you spend many hours circling across > eddylines --- until the way it feels and how you need to lean the boat > becomes second nature. I'll have to try that more! > This, by the way, is one of the benefits to a sea kayaker of learning at > least the basics of white water paddling. After you get that gut feeling > for how to deal with eddies, tide rips and other powerful current gradients > in the ocean stop being scary and become just another feature of our > playground to respect and enjoy. I can see what you mean. Having never yet been in a tide rip; are they a lot "scarier" than big eddies? ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "A person not related to nature is of course neurotic because he is not adapted to reality" -Carl Jung *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:32:59 PDT