Well, I finally did it! I did an off-side screw roll in my Chesapeake! I did a lot of pool rolling this winter in a whitewater boat, and can do about 6 types of rolls on either side, but until yesterday, I was limited to an on-side screw roll in my sea kayak. I took a friend out for his first time in a kayak to the local reservoir. We paddled about 1.5 miles in and then sat around watching waterfowl and shore birds (he didn't realize it, but I was working up the nerve to fill my sinuses with water), and over-I-went! I haven't even done an onside in my sea kayak since April, and then I failed the last roll in a series of 4, so I was pretty stoked to just pull one off without a hitch. I then fell over to the other side and came back up on an offside! I did 2 rolls on either side, before I remembered that I had my swim mask on the back deck, so I put it on and did 5 or 6 more to both sides and then tried some hand rolls. Which didn't work. Anyhow, I had my buddy positioned so that he could eskimo rescue me if my handroll failed. In the process of handrolling, I was "crawling" my boat toward him, and by the time I'd failed 2-3 times, he hadn't moved, but his boat was right in the right place for me to grab and pull up. I was wrong in my earlier statement about getting "pierced" by the sharp bow of a sea kayak. I found that when I was in handroll setup position, my body was about 2' out from the boat, (arms even farther), and I could feel the other boat well before the bow of his boat hit me or my boat. It might still be dangerous in rougher seas, or if your partner is a real "quick accelerator", but is probably the best aide you can have in pond or pool practice. I did find though, that when I complete a screw roll, that my paddle has dived about 2' under the surface. I was very conscious of my blade angle, so this leads me to believe that I'm relying (too much?) heavily on my paddle sweep rather than on my "leg drive" (hip snap). Does anyone have any suggestions, or am I doing as well as could be hoped with a wide (24.5" beam) boat with hard chines and a high deck? I hope to have 3-5 more practice sessions in (2-3 with a fully-loaded boat) before I head for the coast next month. Other than loading the heavier stuff down low, any tips on rolling a loaded boat? Shawn -- ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "A person not related to nature is of course neurotic because he is not adapted to reality" -Carl Jung *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Mon, 21 Jun 1999, Shawn W. Baker wrote: [snip] > Anyhow, I had my buddy positioned so that he could eskimo rescue me if > my handroll failed. In the process of handrolling, I was "crawling" my > boat toward him, and by the time I'd failed 2-3 times, he hadn't moved, > but his boat was right in the right place for me to grab and pull up. > > I was wrong in my earlier statement about getting "pierced" by the sharp > bow of a sea kayak. I found that when I was in handroll setup position, > my body was about 2' out from the boat, (arms even farther), and I could > feel the other boat well before the bow of his boat hit me or my boat. > It might still be dangerous in rougher seas, or if your partner is a > real "quick accelerator", but is probably the best aide you can have in > pond or pool practice. congrats on the roll... i must have missed the post about being "pierced" but there are many types of eskimo rescue. i am assuming you are referring to the "T" rescue. there are many others. i had the honor of being shown two other forms of side by side rescues yesterday, by maligiaq padilla. both rescues have the paddler come alongside, parrallel [sp??], rather than a "T" --- i think i frustrated maligiaq by wet exiting, instead of letting him rescue me ;-) -- oh, back for more tomorrow!! mark #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com----http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark ---- # mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [_| [_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.diac.com/~zen/paddler [index to club websites i administer] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- Fortune: Do not squander time, for that is the stuff life is made of. --Benjamin Franklin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Shawn W. Baker" wrote: > Well, I finally did it! > I did an off-side screw roll in my Chesapeake! I did a lot of pool > rolling this winter in a whitewater boat, and can do about 6 types of > rolls on either side, but until yesterday, I was limited to an on-side > screw roll in my sea kayak. > Congrats! Interestingly, I couldn't do an offside roll in a WW kayak until after I figured it out in my SK. Don't ask me why. > > I did find though, that when I complete a screw roll, that my paddle has > dived about 2' under the surface. I was very conscious of my blade > angle, so this leads me to believe that I'm relying (too much?) heavily > on my paddle sweep rather than on my "leg drive" (hip snap). Does > anyone have any suggestions, or am I doing as well as could be hoped > with a wide (24.5" beam) boat with hard chines and a high deck? > If your blade angle is good and your paddle still dives, it suggests to me that you're pulling down on the paddle before the sweep is complete rather than continuing all the way around. Your hip snap in a sweep roll should be strong, but is not really a snap, but more of a continuous rotation. Make sure you're not pulling the paddle down (sort of c-c) - the standard advice is to follow your paddle around with your head (i.e. watch your paddle blade all the way round). If it's not really two feet under, but a tad less than 18 inches below, I've been told not to worry about it - that, by the way, is pretty much my average roll. > > I hope to have 3-5 more practice sessions in (2-3 with a fully-loaded > boat) before I head for the coast next month. Other than loading the > heavier stuff down low, any tips on rolling a loaded boat? > Piece of cake - once you get a loaded boat past the secondary stability point, it pulls you up! You do need to get a clean sweep will an aggressive hip roll to build the momentum for the heavy boat. Oh yeah - don't let the funny sounds of stuff shifting around in your boat distract you! Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shawn - Ideally your paddle just skims the surface of the water when you do a good screw roll. On really good days, maybe toward the end of the summer, I get that slick feeling to a screw roll. More often, when I'm rolling my hard-chine boat, my paddle will dip below the surface too. Rolling, IMNSHO, is a bit like the old thing about landing an airplane ("any landing you walk away from is a good landing"): any roll which gets you back up is a good roll. I'm sure plenty of others will disagree, but I think if we have a really reliable roll, **in conditions**, that's what we really need. The rest is bragging rights. Nice for practice, nice for confidence, but probably not necessary for safe kayaking. - Bill Hansen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mike wrote: >If your blade angle is good and your paddle still dives, it suggests to me >that you're pulling down on the paddle before the sweep is complete >rather than continuing all the way around. I think that's what I'm doing.. >Your hip snap in a sweep roll should be strong, but is not really a snap, >but more of a continuous rotation. I finally have that ingrained into my head--I think that's what finally let me complete an offside screw roll >Make sure you're not pulling the paddle down (sort of c-c) - >the standard advice is to follow your paddle around with your head >(i.e. watch your paddle blade all the way round). I am following it with my head; I can see it as I have to rotate the blade 90* to pop it out of the water. My elbow is coming in tucked next to my body--is this right or do I need to have my arm fully extended and have my hand/elbow/arm finish well behind my body? --Wow, I don't know how Kirk can air roll his office chair--it's tougher than it looks! >If it's not really two feet under, but a tad less than 18 inches below, >I've been told not to worry about it - that, by the way, is pretty much my >average roll. Okay, so if my blade dives exactly 21 inches, then what? ;) Actually it's probably just over a foot down--not too bad, but not where I'd like it to be either. I'm not sure if I'm having this problem with my offside--the times I did it, I was so elated that I wasn't paying attention to the little details--while my onside is a bit more ingrained, so I can pay more attention to minutia. Shawn ____©/______ ~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^\ ,/ /~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^~^ "A person not related to nature is of course neurotic because he is not adapted to reality" -Carl Jung *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Shawn W. Baker" wrote: > Mike wrote: > >If your blade angle is good and your paddle still dives, it suggests to me > >that you're pulling down on the paddle before the sweep is complete > >rather than continuing all the way around. > I think that's what I'm doing.. > > [...] > >Make sure you're not pulling the paddle down (sort of c-c) - > >the standard advice is to follow your paddle around with your head > >(i.e. watch your paddle blade all the way round). > > I am following it with my head; I can see it as I have to rotate the > blade 90* to pop it out of the water. My elbow is coming in tucked next > to my body--is this right or do I need to have my arm fully extended and > have my hand/elbow/arm finish well behind my body? This is probably most of your problem. Your arm should remain extended all the way around. If you're ending with the elbow close to your body, then you're pulling on the paddle to get your arm in. This is sinking your paddle. I guess the "look at your blade" approach is supposed to get you to concentrate on keeping your arm straight and your head (ear) down on your shoulder. Ideally you should keep your head/shoulders/arm relatively rigid from the time you start your sweep until you're nearly finished. This way, the rotation is coming only from your trunk and not from using, say, your biceps. So think "two rotations" - 1) rotation of the upper trunk to get the sweep, 2) rotation of the hips to get the kayak right side up. One way to guarentee that you've got it right is to slow the sweep down. When I first learned the screw roll, the instructor had me do it till I got it right then do it over and over, slower each time. If you can't do it really slow, you're relying on strength (arm pull) rather than on technique (clean sweep and good hip rotation). Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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