PaddleWise by thread

From: Rev. Bob Carter <revkayak_at_ptialaska.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 22:17:05 -0800
In response to how far off shore to paddle. The key is to not only stay
outside the surf but also outside of the boomers. Boomers are big breaking
waves caused by extra big swells hitting a submerged rock. They can suddenly
occur well beyond the surf line and can catch a paddler by surprise. Here in
Southeast Alaska this means sometimes paddling as much as two miles off shore.
Also points of shore that jut out often cause strange currents and choppy
waves. Stay outside of these.


Bob 


Sitka, Ak.





***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <ssives_at_erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 02:51:57 -0400
No offense to the good reverend,  but as a former ocean lifeguard, I
would not advise a person to kayak two miles offshore alone.  

  I love kayaking in the ocean, and of course I have alot of experience
swimming out there as well.  It is real easy to be blown further out in
the ocean in windy conditions - or if a stiff current kicks up.  I agree
with another poster who said "you don't paddle farther than you are
prepared to swim."

  I wish I had a dollar for every clueless tourist I had to wake up out
in the ocean.  These clowns would fall asleep on a raft in the ocean
like they were in a pool!  I always wonder what their expression would
be like if I actually let them wake up five miles out at sea!

  The point is that you must have GREAT RESPECT for the ocean - it can
easily kill you.  If something goes wrong two miles out at sea, you have
a real problem on your hands if you are not an excellent long distance
swimmer.  I've swam a mile straight out in the ocean (with two other
lifguards - one carrying a buoy "just in case").  Let me tell you , it
is an unnerving feeling.  You really feel isolated, and you start to
wonder about the "things" living in the ocean beneath you!  If you add
in poor weather conditions or stiff winds/currents, you can easily get
into trouble.

  Pardon my "preaching", but I really think we need to stress safety on
this site.  

  - Scott Ives

     
  Rev. Bob Carter wrote:
> 
> In response to how far off shore to paddle. The key is to not only stay outside the surf but also outside of the boomers. Boomers are big breaking waves caused by extra big swells hitting a submerged rock. They can suddenly occur well beyond the surf line and can catch a paddler by surprise. Here in Southeast Alaska this means sometimes paddling as much as two miles off shore....
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: R. Walker <rww_at_mailbox.neosoft.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 13:06:47 -0500
> No offense to the good reverend,  but as a former ocean lifeguard, I
> would not advise a person to kayak two miles offshore alone.  
> 
>   I love kayaking in the ocean, and of course I have alot of experience
> swimming out there as well.  It is real easy to be blown further out in
> the ocean in windy conditions - or if a stiff current kicks up.  I agree
> with another poster who said "you don't paddle farther than you are
> prepared to swim."

I don't think the question is "how far"; it feels to me more like there are 
zones of comfort to work with in a kayak.  You've got bays/lakes, 
completely protected; you've got near shore within a mile or two with surf 
and land to look at.  And you have offshore.  Offshore is a relatively benign 
environment for a kayak, *IF* you are mentally and equipment wise 
prepared to spend more than a night or two on the water if something wierd 
happens.   If you are about to launch, and you're going beyond the surf 
zone, HOW HARD IS IT to put 3-5 gallons of fresh water in the boat with 
you?  Next, MISSING WORK is not a life threatening situation deserving of 
coast guard rescue.   If a current up and snags you, and drags you twenty 
miles out or even just in the wrong direction up the coast, BIG WUP.  Use 
your radio or cell phone to call in the change of plans to who ever has your 
float plan and just deal with it.

>   I wish I had a dollar for every clueless tourist I had to wake up out in
> the ocean.  These clowns would fall asleep on a raft in the ocean like
> they were in a pool!  I always wonder what their expression would be like
> if I actually let them wake up five miles out at sea!

There's a lot of difference between a drunk tourist asleep on a float tube 
and a kayaker going offshore alone properly equiped.  

As a comment from the western gulf coast, you have to realize that blue 
water is almost always at least 10 miles out....  [we also don't have 
boomers, and the currents are fightable.]



Richard Walker
Houston, TX
http://www.neosoft.com/~rww/kayak_log.html
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Bob Myers <bob_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 01:23:25 -0700
Scott,

Where do you paddle?  

Rev. Bob Carter was referring particularly to SE Alaska.

I've never paddled there or indeed anywhere on the Pacific Coast
north of San Francisco, but I've heard enough stories about 
boomers quite a ways off shore to be very wary and not so
dismissive as you.

You're right, we do need to stress safety - but the point 
Rev. Bob was making was that sometimes that means paddling
quite a ways out beyond the surf zone.  

I don't think one should ignore local knowledge and experience
while trying to be safe.  Sometimes what's safest in one area
can be very dangerous in another.


On Jun 26,  2:51, "ssives_at_erols.com" wrote:
} Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
> No offense to the good reverend,  but as a former ocean lifeguard, I
> would not advise a person to kayak two miles offshore alone.  
> 
>   I love kayaking in the ocean, and of course I have alot of experience
> swimming out there as well.  It is real easy to be blown further out in
> the ocean in windy conditions - or if a stiff current kicks up.  I agree
> with another poster who said "you don't paddle farther than you are
> prepared to swim."
> 
>   I wish I had a dollar for every clueless tourist I had to wake up out
> in the ocean.  These clowns would fall asleep on a raft in the ocean
> like they were in a pool!  I always wonder what their expression would
> be like if I actually let them wake up five miles out at sea!
> 
>   The point is that you must have GREAT RESPECT for the ocean - it can
> easily kill you.  If something goes wrong two miles out at sea, you have
> a real problem on your hands if you are not an excellent long distance
> swimmer.  I've swam a mile straight out in the ocean (with two other
> lifguards - one carrying a buoy "just in case").  Let me tell you , it
> is an unnerving feeling.  You really feel isolated, and you start to
> wonder about the "things" living in the ocean beneath you!  If you add
> in poor weather conditions or stiff winds/currents, you can easily get
> into trouble.
> 
>   Pardon my "preaching", but I really think we need to stress safety on
> this site.  
> 
>   - Scott Ives
> 
>      
>   Rev. Bob Carter wrote:
> > 
> > In response to how far off shore to paddle. The key is to not only stay outside the surf but also outside of the boomers. Boomers are big breaking waves caused by extra big swells hitting a submerged rock. They can suddenly occur well beyond the surf line and can catch a paddler by surprise. Here in Southeast Alaska this means sometimes paddling as much as two miles off shore....
> ***************************************************************************
> PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
> Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
> ***************************************************************************
>-- End of excerpt from "ssives_at_erols.com"



-- 
Bob Myers                          InteleNet Communications, Inc.
Email: bob_at_InteleNet.net           18101 Von Karman Avenue, Suite 550
Phone: 949-851-8250 x227           Irvine, CA 92612
Fax:   949-851-1088                http://www.intelenet.net/
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <ssives_at_erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 22:26:45 -0400
Bob,

  You're right, I don't have any real knowledge of paddling on the
"left" coast.  I paddle most of the time around Washington, D.C.  And I
agree paddling farther out may be safer if these "boomers" are so
dangerous.

   BTW - what exactly is a boomer?  Is it some kind of gigantic tidal
wave that is actually life threatening?  And how prevalent are they? I
recognize your post, but I still say that unless one is an excellent
long distance swimmer, he/she is still taking their life in their hands
when they routinely swim 2 miles off ANY coast.   

   I just recalled that I did paddle off the west coast one one
occasion.  I was near "Cannary Row" where the seals hang out.  I was
very close to the shoreline and didn't recall the water behaving any
differently than the Atlantic (but admittedly that was just one day).

  So in summary I agree that Alaska may have a different type of coast
with different dangers.  But one still shouldn't discount the danger of
paddling far off shore alone on a regular basis.

  - Scott
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Arthur Hebert <seacajun_at_gs.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 21:12:06 -0500
From: R. Walker <rww_at_mailbox.neosoft.com>
>
>I don't think the question is "how far"; it feels to me more like there are
>zones of comfort to work with in a kayak.  You've got bays/lakes,
>completely protected; you've got near shore within a mile or two with surf
>and land to look at.  And you have offshore.  Offshore is a relatively
benign
>environment for a kayak, *IF* you are mentally and equipment wise
>prepared to spend more than a night or two on the water if something wierd
>happens.   If you are about to launch, and you're going beyond the surf
>zone, HOW HARD IS IT to put 3-5 gallons of fresh water in the boat with
>you?  Next, MISSING WORK is not a life threatening situation deserving of
>coast guard rescue.   If a current up and snags you, and drags you twenty
>miles out or even just in the wrong direction up the coast, BIG WUP.  Use
>your radio or cell phone to call in the change of plans to who ever has
your
>float plan and just deal with it.



Well said Richard, If one does not have a comfort zone when no land is in
site, she/he should not be in a situation that could cause them to spend
time in the open sea.  The lack of a comfort zone could cause someone to
make fatal decisions or just simply "lose it".
   So how far offshore should one paddle, it all depends upon the hazards
between you and the shore, whether it is large surf, boomers, jetties,
currents, oyster shell reef, etc, know the area you are paddling in.  Being
forced offshore the worst hazards would be a unprepared mind, lack of skills
and lack of proper equipment and body fuel.
Arthur Hebert
http://homepages.gs.net/seacajun




***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <leander_at_worldnet.att.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:36:47 -0700
Getting carried out to sea, as you mentioned, can all to easily occur,and not just to those in rafts or boats. It nearly happened when I was in my teens in Maine. 
  A friend and I went swimming early one morning without first checking tide tables, to ultimately find ourselves being dragged out to sea. My friend, a champion competition pool swimmer, started to shore with a beautiful form-perfect strong  breast stroke. I, being a lowly self-taught swimmer, who could *never* win a race, swam in with a combination side-stroke and strange self-styled current-fighting-brief-rest pseudo-back-stroke. Despite looking ridiculous, it does work. About a half hour later, after finally making the beach, I looked back to see my friend still far out, struggling, and heard "I can't make it". 
  No one else was on the beach at this early hour, so I went back in, and another half-hour or so later, we were both on shore again. *Now* the life-guard showed up for work, so word got back to our folks, who were not happy with our stupidity. We were both in trouble for not having checked the tide info, and I was in trouble for jumping back in (parental fear reaction).
  The point is, we new better, but a moment's laziness almost resulted in tragedy. Also, in the ocean, the strongest swimmer is not necessarily the strongest swimmer. Such are the vagaries of the sea.
Regards,
Leander
leander_at_worldnet.att.net

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Fri, 9 Jul 1999 11:01:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: "ssives_at_erols.com" <ssives_at_erols.com>
>
> Bob,
> 
>   You're right, I don't have any real knowledge of paddling on the
> "left" coast.  I paddle most of the time around Washington, D.C.  And I
> agree paddling farther out may be safer if these "boomers" are so
> dangerous.

<snip question on what is a boomer that was answered by another paddler>

>    I just recalled that I did paddle off the west coast one one
> occasion.  I was near "Cannary Row" where the seals hang out.  I was
> very close to the shoreline and didn't recall the water behaving any
> differently than the Atlantic (but admittedly that was just one day).


Hi Scott,

I believe Bob was talking about making general statements on paddling safety
when situations vary in all parts of the world.  Local knowledge and
experience counts for a lot more than general rules applied elsewhere.

"Near Cannary Row" is in Monterey Bay which is not really thought of as 
exposed coastline.  It can get rough in the bay, but often is quite easy,
protected paddling.  It also cannot be used as a general comparison of paddling
the west coast and a paddler would be mistaken to assume it is typical
of paddling the west coast.  As a visitor to any area, I would not assume
that one day or even months of paddling that area was typical of that
specific area, much less representative of a coastline covering thousands 
of miles.

>   So in summary I agree that Alaska may have a different type of coast
> with different dangers.  But one still shouldn't discount the danger of
> paddling far off shore alone on a regular basis.
> 
>   - Scott

Nor should one discount the possible dangers of paddling near shore.

Cheers,

Jackie (finally caught up on email?)
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Sat, 10 Jul 1999 09:48:43 -0700
Jackie Fenton wrote:

> Hi Scott,
> 
> I believe Bob was talking about making general statements on paddling safety
> when situations vary in all parts of the world.  Local knowledge and
> experience counts for a lot more than general rules applied elsewhere.
> 
> "Near Cannary Row" is in Monterey Bay which is not really thought of as
> exposed coastline.  It can get rough in the bay, but often is quite easy,
> protected paddling.  It also cannot be used as a general comparison of paddling
> the west coast and a paddler would be mistaken to assume it is typical
> of paddling the west coast.  As a visitor to any area, I would not assume
> that one day or even months of paddling that area was typical of that
> specific area, much less representative of a coastline covering thousands
> of miles.
> 
> >   So in summary I agree that Alaska may have a different type of coast
> > with different dangers.  But one still shouldn't discount the danger of
> > paddling far off shore alone on a regular basis.
> >
> >   - Scott
> 
> Nor should one discount the possible dangers of paddling near shore.

Boy, I am glad that Jackie posted this.  Even benign areas near shore
can resemble the North Sea if winds pick up and currents are running
counter to them.  I have seen paddlers from other areas blanche when
paddling the harbor here in such conditions.  Even supposedly protected
areas like South Bay between Long Island and the barrier Fire Island can
get absolutely wild because it is so shallow and winds can kick it up to
rapid 6 foot waves with so little interval between them that you feel
you are moving on a corrugated roof only with pretty steep pitches and
depths between the corrugations.

Local knowledge is indispensable for paddling.  Seek it out all you
can.  If you can't get it, be gingerly in your paddling distances and
times out on the water especially if any weather transition is a
possibility.

ralph diaz
> ***************************************************************************
> PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
> Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
> ***************************************************************************

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: <ssives_at_erols.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] How far off shore?
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 16:33:53 -0400
I agree folks!  My only point is that one should have a healthy
respect for any large body of water.  It appears that the West coast has
certain hidden dangers (ie. "boomers") which we don't have on the East
coast - and which require one to paddle further out.  Nevertheless, all
else being equal, I think being further out (ie. 2 miles off shore)
presents risks in itself (ie. being blown out to sea, or just increasing
the difficulty of returning to shore if tired) which one has to consider
carefully.

  - Scott
> 
> Jackie Fenton wrote:
> >... Nor should one discount the possible dangers of paddling near shore.
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:00 PDT