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From: Hal Levine <hlevin_at_jlc.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 19:59:34 -0400
Here in New England us Romans usually wear some type of thermal
protection (wet suit, farmer john, fuzzy rubber, dry suit or dry top,
neo booties etc.) when going out on the open ocean or large bays when
the water temp is less than 60 F.

I had the wonderful opportunity to paddle in the Pacific NW (San Juan
Island and Glacier Bay) last week and the only protection anyone
(individuals or outfitters) wore were knee high rubber boots.  The water
was in the low 40s in the San Juans and less in Glacier Bay.  I was a
good Roman and went out but was not at all comfy.  What's the deal?

Additionally, the outfitter from Friday Harbor instructed the newbies to
put the spray skirt  over the pfd.  I know it was near a full moon but I
was very surprised. In a week of traveling around in Southern Alaska and
Washington I never saw a wet suit or dry top.

Is is a right ocean right brain; left ocean left brain thing?

    Hal
    Wilton, NH

    Power your boat with carbohydrates,
    not hydrocarbons.
    http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin


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From: <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 21:40:21 -0700
Hal Levine wrote:
> 
> Here in New England us Romans usually wear some type of thermal
> protection (wet suit, farmer john, fuzzy rubber, dry suit or dry top,
> neo booties etc.) when going out on the open ocean or large bays when
> the water temp is less than 60 F.
> 
> I had the wonderful opportunity to paddle in the Pacific NW (San Juan
> Island and Glacier Bay) last week and the only protection anyone
> (individuals or outfitters) wore were knee high rubber boots.  The water
> was in the low 40s in the San Juans and less in Glacier Bay.  I was a
> good Roman and went out but was not at all comfy.  What's the deal?
> 
> Additionally, the outfitter from Friday Harbor instructed the newbies to
> put the spray skirt  over the pfd.  I know it was near a full moon but I
> was very surprised. In a week of traveling around in Southern Alaska and
> Washington I never saw a wet suit or dry top.
> 
> Is is a right ocean right brain; left ocean left brain thing?
> 
>     Hal
>     Wilton, NH
> 

Some years ago, I had a visit to New York City from a prominent kayaker
from the Northwest (I want to keep things vague).  It was in February. 
He had his wife and 5 year old child along.  Of course, I offered the
Statue of Liberty trip but first even before he came to NYC I asked if
he were bringing cold water gear and I re-asked when he got here.

I guess I didn't make my question specific enough.  I learned on the day
of the trip that his idea of cold water gear at the time (since changed
with the times) was long underwear and goretex rain jacket and pants
(his family was similarly equipped).  I decided to go anyway.  We were
launching in the relatively calm waters behind the Statue and never
likely to be more than a few hundred feet from land.  I, of course, wore
a dry suit with proper insulation underneath.  I kept rehearsing in my
mind what I would do if any of them went over (jump out of my boat to
put them in my dry one, etc.)  It was quite a nervous trip as our boats
broke through a thin layer of ice at the put-in but it all went well. 
None of them were even wearing PFDs except the boy.

Why did I do it?  You sometimes do things even when you really do know
better.  I don't lapse much, but sometimes I do.  The guy is an icon and
10 times the paddler I am and very agile and real outdoorsy and not
likely to run into trouble nor panic.  The conditions were glass calm,
the water as glassy smooth as the ice at the put-in.  I weighed the
risks and considered them quite low and had at least some strategies for
getting them out of the cold water in seconds if need be and no doubt he
was extremely capable of helping himself and kin.  But I was certainly
nervous and awfully glad to be back at the put-in.

At the time, I dismissed the cold water approach of my friend as a
quirky Northwest thing and I believe that in large part Northwest
paddlers simply did not take cold-water seriously.  I know that around
the time an article on hypothermia written by an Eastern Moulton Avery
of the Washington DC area that appeared in Sea Kayaker caused quite a
stir and seemed revolutionary judging by letters to the editor.

I am surprised however to see that some paddlers out that way have not
changed.  My friend and his family I know are dry-suited these days and
PFDed as well.

ralph diaz

-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

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From: <Tomckayak_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:51:31 EDT
In a message dated 8/4/99 6:59:54 PM EST, hlevin_at_jlc.net writes:

<< Additionally, the outfitter from Friday Harbor instructed the newbies to
 put the spray skirt  over the pfd.  I know it was near a full moon but I
 was very surprised. In a week of traveling around in Southern Alaska and
 Washington I never saw a wet suit or dry top. >>

Serious sea kayakers in the Northwest that I paddle with wear Wet or dry 
suits. I just completed a two week trip in SE Alaska and spent every minute 
on the water in a Gor-tex dry suit. 
On the other hand, the only requirement clubs have is to wear polypro and no 
cotton. 
Outfitters in general are driven by greed. The big rental outfit on Lake 
Union, in the heart of Seattle, does not even give out spray shirts for kayak 
paddling on the lake and their one of the best operations.
 This has been going on for years and the body count is very low.
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From: Dave Kruger <dkruger_at_pacifier.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Sat, 14 Aug 1999 04:16:03 -0700
Tomckayak_at_aol.com wrote:
> 
> In a message dated 8/4/99 6:59:54 PM EST, hlevin_at_jlc.net (Hal Levine) writes:
> 
> << Additionally, the outfitter from Friday Harbor instructed the newbies to
>  put the spray skirt  over the pfd.  I know it was near a full moon but I
>  was very surprised. In a week of traveling around in Southern Alaska and
>  Washington I never saw a wet suit or dry top. >>
> 
> Serious sea kayakers in the Northwest that I paddle with wear Wet or dry
> suits. I just completed a two week trip in SE Alaska and spent every minute
> on the water in a Gor-tex dry suit.
> On the other hand, the only requirement clubs have is to wear polypro and no
> cotton.
> Outfitters in general are driven by greed. The big rental outfit on Lake
> Union, in the heart of Seattle, does not even give out spray shirts for kayak
> paddling on the lake and their one of the best operations.
>  This has been going on for years and the body count is very low.

Tom accurately describes what I have seen in Seattle.  I choose not to paddle
in the San Juans.

Tim Mattson's experience (summarized in another post) is somewhat different
from what I see around here.

On the Lower Columbia River (*flatwater* conditions), most sea kayakers do not
wear immersion protection clothing, winter or summer.  Maybe 20 per cent of us
do, when the water is cold.  When the water is warm, nobody wears a dry
suit/dry top or FJ.

When the conditions on the River get gnarly, the only people I see out on the
River are the folks with the skill to deal with the conditions -- invariably
they wear immersion protection clothing.

Those who kayak surf, as Tim notes, almost always wear wet suits or dry suits.

Hal's experience is similar to what I have observed in another popular area
for guided parties: Barkley Sound, FWIW.  Barkley Sound has what I would call
"cold" water, most times of the year.

As Tom says, the body count in the PNW is low -- which I attribute to a very
low incidence of capsizes, not to appropriate clothing.  All it will take is
one "incident" in which the majority of the clients of a guided party succumb
to immersion hypothermia to change this.

-- 
Dave Kruger
Astoria, OR
cynic

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From: Mattson, Timothy G <timothy.g.mattson_at_intel.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 09:13:42 -0700
Oh I just couldn't resist jumping in on this one.

I live and paddle in the Northwest.  "Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with"
almost never wear full wet suits or dry suits.  Of course we wear them when
playing in the surf and in unusually rough seas, but for the most part, its
just poly-pro with maybe a light neoprene vest and a light paddle jacket for
winter conditions.

"Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" have solid combat rolls and dress
appropriate to the few seconds of  immersion rollers have to deal with. If
we come out of our boats and get separated from them, we would die.  Given
that the "Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" practice their rolls regularly
in all conditions and all states of dress (ok,  not quite all.  We've never
gone out to work on  nude rolling), the chances of coming out of our boats
are vanishingly small.

"Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" paddle hard -- many of us  race.  We
would die of heat exhaustion if we wore wet suits or dry suits.

"Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" always wear PFD's and spray skirts.  We
carry knives, towing harnesses,  throw ropes, paddle floats, flares, VHF
radios and a full assorment of saftey gear.  We are VERY saftey consious.
When a capsize means at most ten seconds in the water, we just don't see a
dry suit or wet suit as appropriate for most paddling conditions -- even in
very cold water.  

--Tim

P.S. Of course, this all changes when unusual circumstances are at play.  If
"Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" are going to play in the surf zone, run
white water rivers, or go out alone in rough conditions, a full wet suit  or
in the winter a dry suit would be worn.


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Tomckayak_at_aol.com [SMTP:Tomckayak_at_aol.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:52 AM
> To:	hlevin_at_jlc.net; PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subject:	Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
> 
> In a message dated 8/4/99 6:59:54 PM EST, hlevin_at_jlc.net writes:
> 
> << Additionally, the outfitter from Friday Harbor instructed the newbies
> to
>  put the spray skirt  over the pfd.  I know it was near a full moon but I
>  was very surprised. In a week of traveling around in Southern Alaska and
>  Washington I never saw a wet suit or dry top. >>
> 
> Serious sea kayakers in the Northwest that I paddle with wear Wet or dry 
> suits. I just completed a two week trip in SE Alaska and spent every
> minute 
> on the water in a Gor-tex dry suit. 
> On the other hand, the only requirement clubs have is to wear polypro and
> no 
> cotton. 
> Outfitters in general are driven by greed. The big rental outfit on Lake 
> Union, in the heart of Seattle, does not even give out spray shirts for
> kayak 
> paddling on the lake and their one of the best operations.
>  This has been going on for years and the body count is very low.
> **************************************************************************
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From: Philip Torrens <skerries_at_hotmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:43:06 PDT
I wonder if air temperatures factor into the possibly greater use of 
wetsuits and drysuits on the East Coast vs. the West Coast? I own two 
drysuits and a wetsuit and carry at least one of these when touring or on 
aggressive daytrips. That said, there are summer days when I simply could 
not wear any of them without being overcome by heat prostration.
(Honesty requires me to own that while my abdominal muscles retain the 
washboard-like hardness of my youth, they have unaccountably become 
concealed beneath a certain amount of natural insulation which could also be 
contributing to this overheating problem. From a kayaking point of view I 
suppose I should be happy to be evolving into a marine mammal who will 
eventually be able to dispense with my wetsuit (and perhaps my sprayskirt!), 
but from a romantic point view, it's hard to imagine that (human) females 
find the image of a rather prosperous-looking seal to be beguiling :-)
My impression is that even what folks from Maine sportingly call "summer" 
can be pretty cool. My experience of kayaking on the East Coast - I grew up 
in Canada's Maritime provinces - is two or more decades out of date. 
Kayak-specific immersion gear wasn't on the market then (at least not in our 
literally back-water towns), so I have no current East Coast basis of 
comparison. I do have to say that to see immersion gear actually being worn 
is the exception rather than the rule here on the British Columbia coast, 
but I'm not sure if this is the result of higher air temperatures, or local 
(bad) habits.

Philip Torrens
N49°16' W123°06'

>Hal Levine wrote:
> >
> > Here in New England us Romans usually wear some type of thermal
> > protection (wet suit, farmer john, fuzzy rubber, dry suit or dry top,
> > neo booties etc.) when going out on the open ocean or large bays when
> > the water temp is less than 60 F.
> >
> > I had the wonderful opportunity to paddle in the Pacific NW (San Juan
> > Island and Glacier Bay) last week and the only protection anyone
> > (individuals or outfitters) wore were knee high rubber boots.  The water
> > was in the low 40s in the San Juans and less in Glacier Bay.  I was a
> > good Roman and went out but was not at all comfy.  What's the deal?
> >
> > was very surprised. In a week of traveling around in Southern Alaska and
> > Washington I never saw a wet suit or dry top.
> >
> > Is is a right ocean right brain; left ocean left brain thing?
> >
> >     Hal


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From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 09:53:08 -0700
>>Hal Levine wrote:
>>> 
>>> Here in New England us Romans usually wear some type of thermal
>>> protection (wet suit, farmer john, fuzzy rubber, dry suit or dry top,
>>> neo booties etc.) when going out on the open ocean or large bays when
>>> the water temp is less than 60 F.
><snip>
>
>Ralph Diaz responded:
><big snip> At the time, I dismissed the cold water approach of my friend as a
>>quirky Northwest thing and I believe that in large part Northwest
>>paddlers simply did not take cold-water seriously.  I know that around
>>the time an article on hypothermia written by an Eastern Moulton Avery
>>of the Washington DC area that appeared in Sea Kayaker caused quite a
>>stir and seemed revolutionary judging by letters to the editor.
>>
>>I am surprised however to see that some paddlers out that way have not
>>changed.  My friend and his family I know are dry-suited these days and
>>PFDed as well.
>
Ralph,
You should know better than to paint all Pacific Northwest kayakers with
the same brush, however, I would say that there is less emphasis on this
coast with respect to cold water immersion gear. This is due to the fact
that, for sheltered waters (read inland sea-ways) winter temps are warmer
on the coast than in the interior of the land (and cooler in the summer).
Fleece and rain gear are the norm much of the year. BCU paddlers from the
UK also follow this approach in recent years, preferring not to wear lots
of restrictive attire, and concentrate on staying out of trouble and the
water. That is even more incredulous, given the UK does not have the PNW's
warm Japanese current to keep things moderate.

Most of us who solo paddle, paddle at night, paddle during winter
outbreaks, or do long crossings and/or rough water work, wear wet suits.
Dry suits are less common out hear, but are slowly coming into use. I run
across a fair number of paddlers out on the open coast not wearing wet
suits (or equivalent). So I guess you are somewhat accurate Ralph. Its not
like we should not have more sea savvy, after all, a lot of hypothermia
research happens around hear too, and gets published.

Last year one of the top BCU/CRCA coaches in our club ran a winter clinic
here. One of the participants phoned in to register, said they had the
proper thermal immersion gear and rough water skills. There was still ice
on the water (unusual for hear). At the first sign of a chop, she went
over. She was so cold that rescue was almost impossible. A dock was close
buy, and the owners of a cabin rushed out to help, and got the person into
a hot shower. Okay, paint with that brush, Ralph!

BC'in Ya
Doug Lloyd     
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From: Andy Johnson <carljohn_at_hsc.usc.edu>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 10:02:18 -0700
This seems to me a prudent policy. The absolute insistence on dry suits or
any other specific piece of equipment is not good policy. Flexibility for
the occasion and discretion are far better not only for kayaking, but for
most endeavors in life.

Andy

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
[mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Mattson,
Timothy G
Sent: Thursday, August 05, 1999 9:14 AM
To: 'Tomckayak_at_aol.com'; hlevin_at_jlc.net; PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?


Oh I just couldn't resist jumping in on this one.

I live and paddle in the Northwest.  "Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with"
almost never wear full wet suits or dry suits.  Of course we wear them when
playing in the surf and in unusually rough seas, but for the most part, its
just poly-pro with maybe a light neoprene vest and a light paddle jacket for
winter conditions.

"Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" have solid combat rolls and dress
appropriate to the few seconds of  immersion rollers have to deal with. If
we come out of our boats and get separated from them, we would die.  Given
that the "Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" practice their rolls regularly
in all conditions and all states of dress (ok,  not quite all.  We've never
gone out to work on  nude rolling), the chances of coming out of our boats
are vanishingly small.

"Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" paddle hard -- many of us  race.  We
would die of heat exhaustion if we wore wet suits or dry suits.

"Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" always wear PFD's and spray skirts.  We
carry knives, towing harnesses,  throw ropes, paddle floats, flares, VHF
radios and a full assorment of saftey gear.  We are VERY saftey consious.
When a capsize means at most ten seconds in the water, we just don't see a
dry suit or wet suit as appropriate for most paddling conditions -- even in
very cold water.

--Tim

P.S. Of course, this all changes when unusual circumstances are at play.  If
"Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" are going to play in the surf zone, run
white water rivers, or go out alone in rough conditions, a full wet suit  or
in the winter a dry suit would be worn.


> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Tomckayak_at_aol.com [SMTP:Tomckayak_at_aol.com]
> Sent:	Thursday, August 05, 1999 7:52 AM
> To:	hlevin_at_jlc.net; PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subject:	Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
>
> In a message dated 8/4/99 6:59:54 PM EST, hlevin_at_jlc.net writes:
>
> << Additionally, the outfitter from Friday Harbor instructed the newbies
> to
>  put the spray skirt  over the pfd.  I know it was near a full moon but I
>  was very surprised. In a week of traveling around in Southern Alaska and
>  Washington I never saw a wet suit or dry top. >>
>
> Serious sea kayakers in the Northwest that I paddle with wear Wet or dry
> suits. I just completed a two week trip in SE Alaska and spent every
> minute
> on the water in a Gor-tex dry suit.
> On the other hand, the only requirement clubs have is to wear polypro and
> no
> cotton.
> Outfitters in general are driven by greed. The big rental outfit on Lake
> Union, in the heart of Seattle, does not even give out spray shirts for
> kayak
> paddling on the lake and their one of the best operations.
>  This has been going on for years and the body count is very low.
> **************************************************************************
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From: News <news_at_fachwen.org>
subject: Re:[Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 21:22:49 +0100
>Mattson, Timothy G wrote:

>I live and paddle in the Northwest.  "Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with"
>almost never wear full wet suits or dry suits.  Of course we wear them when
>playing in the surf and in unusually rough seas, but for the most part, its
>just poly-pro with maybe a light neoprene vest and a light paddle jacket for
>winter conditions.
>
Here in Wales most of my paddling friends dress in the same way, the idea 
is not to come out of the boat at all... To wear a dry suit would not be 
practical - we'd just get too hot!

At a recent Sea Symposium on Anglesey it was a hot day, the sun was 
shining, all the locals trying out new boats dressed in shorts and 
t-shirts. We were amused and puzzled by many of the visiting Americans 
insisting on wearing full dry suit, perhapps they were interested in 
preparing their bodies for the evening drinking sessions!

Cheers, Keith
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From: Hal Levine <hlevin_at_jlc.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 16:38:26 -0400
Now that I see that I may be causing an international and bi-coastal incident
for "Serious Paddlers" I must add that although I can understand dressing for the
air,  my observations last week in the Pacific NW took place on days that the air
temperature was not above 65F.  In fact out in the wind on the water it was cool
enough to have some layers.  I would have welcomed my farmer john.  And if I was
going to roll I certainly would have worn my pfd over my spray skirt.

    Hal
    Wilton, NH

    Power your boat with carbohydrates,
    not hydrocarbons.
    http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin


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From: Patrick Maun <pmaun_at_bitstream.net>
subject: Re:[Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 15:53:31 -0500
If you paid $600 US for a full drysuit, you'd want to wear it all the time too!

;-)

-Patrick (not wearing mine right now, maybe later, while doing some housework)

>[SNIP]
>At a recent Sea Symposium on Anglesey it was a hot day, the sun was
>shining, all the locals trying out new boats dressed in shorts and
>t-shirts. We were amused and puzzled by many of the visiting Americans
>insisting on wearing full dry suit, perhapps they were interested in
>preparing their bodies for the evening drinking sessions!
>
>Cheers, Keith

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From: David Seng <David_at_wainet.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 5 Aug 1999 14:19:24 -0800
It's a pretty common sight here in SE Alaska to see folks dressed for
paddling in cotton Carhart jeans, a fleece pullover top and the ubiquitous
SE footwear called Xtra-Tufs (16 inch brown rubber boots).  Pretty scary to
tell the truth - even in summer an unprotected person can quickly succumb to
hypothermia in these waters.  OTOH - most of the paddlers aren't (I hate to
use the word cause I do it for fun) "serious" paddlers and tend to only go
out in calm conditions for short paddles.
  If you visit the Juneau area you'll recognize me on the water very easily,
I think I have the only Kokatat GoreTex drysuit in town and I wear it almost
religiously.  

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Hal Levine [mailto:hlevin_at_jlc.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, August 04, 1999 4:00 PM
> To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net
> Subject: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
> 
> 
> Here in New England us Romans usually wear some type of thermal
> protection (wet suit, farmer john, fuzzy rubber, dry suit or dry top,
> neo booties etc.) when going out on the open ocean or large bays when
> the water temp is less than 60 F.
> 
> I had the wonderful opportunity to paddle in the Pacific NW (San Juan
> Island and Glacier Bay) last week and the only protection anyone
> (individuals or outfitters) wore were knee high rubber boots. 
>  The water
> was in the low 40s in the San Juans and less in Glacier Bay.  I was a
> good Roman and went out but was not at all comfy.  What's the deal?
> 
> Additionally, the outfitter from Friday Harbor instructed the 
> newbies to
> put the spray skirt  over the pfd.  I know it was near a full 
> moon but I
> was very surprised. In a week of traveling around in Southern 
> Alaska and
> Washington I never saw a wet suit or dry top.
> 
> Is is a right ocean right brain; left ocean left brain thing?
> 
>     Hal
>     Wilton, NH
> 
>     Power your boat with carbohydrates,
>     not hydrocarbons.
>     http://www.jlc.net/~hlevin
> 
> 
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From: James Lofton <n5yyx_at_etsc.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Thu, 05 Aug 1999 19:20:30 -0700
David Seng wrote:
> 
> It's a pretty common sight here in SE Alaska to see folks dressed for
> paddling in cotton Carhart jeans, a fleece pullover top and the ubiquitous
> SE footwear called Xtra-Tufs (16 inch brown rubber boots).  Pretty scary to
> tell the truth - even in summer an unprotected person can quickly succumb to
> hypothermia in these waters.  OTOH - most of the paddlers aren't (I hate to
> use the word cause I do it for fun) "serious" paddlers and tend to only go
> out in calm conditions for short paddles.
>   If you visit the Juneau area you'll recognize me on the water very easily,
> I think I have the only Kokatat GoreTex drysuit in town and I wear it almost
> religiously.
>

Just wondering, how many of you real serious paddlers spend time out on 
the water with your drysuit unzipped, or heaven forbid, pulled down 
around your waist??

Come on, be honest.

I don't know what I would call me, but I have never paddled with a dry or 
wet suit and I paddle mostly alone, all year long, at night, but NEVER 
when I think I might die. I have paddled with a pair of shorts and 
t-shirt on when the water was WAY too cold to be in, but the air temp was 
just perfect(love those NM winter days!).
I do paddle a folbot and do take extra care to hopefully not end up in 
the drink. I wonder if wearing a dry suit would give me reason to think I 
was "bullet proof"???

I tend to think too many are gear heads and wonder if they would be on 
the water at all if it wasn't for the trick gear...?

I have a friend that is always saying, "lets practice wet exits or 
getting back in". I always say, "lets practice not turning over and 
not getting wet". Sounds like a phoney statement, but it has been my 
religion for many a year.

Paddle safe.

James, flame away. maybe it'll burn off this unseasonable humity

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From: <Tomckayak_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 01:35:51 EDT
In a message dated 8/5/99 11:15:02 AM EST, timothy.g.mattson_at_intel.com writes:

<<  If
 "Serious Sea Kayakers I paddle with" are going to play in the surf zone, run
 white water rivers, or go out alone in rough conditions, a full wet suit  or
 in the winter a dry suit would be worn. >>

The word's " White water" and "racer" explain a lot.  
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From: <Tomckayak_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 01:49:07 EDT
In a message dated 8/5/99 5:16:58 PM EST, David_at_wainet.com writes:

<<  If you visit the Juneau area you'll recognize me on the water very easily,
 I think I have the only Kokatat GoreTex drysuit in town and I wear it almost
 religiously.  
  >>
I also have the GroeTex Kokatat, I wear it in all conditoins for every kind 
of paddling. On multi day trips its a must.
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From: David Seng <David_at_wainet.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] When in Rome do as the Romans do?
Date: Fri, 6 Aug 1999 09:19:56 -0800
> David Seng wrote:
> > 
>> OTOH - most of the paddlers 
>> aren't (I hate to
> > use the word cause I do it for fun) "serious" paddlers and 
> tend to only go
> > out in calm conditions for short paddles.


Then James Lofton wrote:
> 
> Just wondering, how many of you real serious paddlers spend 
> time out on 
> the water with your drysuit unzipped, or heaven forbid, pulled down 
> around your waist??
> 
> Come on, be honest.
> 

And I reply -
See, I knew when I wrote it that I _hated_ to use the word "serious". <g>
Seriously, I'm one of the least serious paddlers imaginable - paddling's too
much fun to be serious.  Doesn't mean it shouldn't be taken seriously
though.

I have never paddled with my drysuit unzipped or pulled down.  If you're
going to use a piece of gear then use it properly.  It's probably better to
not use it at all than to use it in a way that it was never intended to be
used.  Goes pretty much for anything, not just drysuits.

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska
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