it >>weathercocked badly enough for me to reject the design without >>hesitation. The following year the manufacturer of the boat added a >>drop-down skeg to this model. > >You paddle a Caribou, don't you? Nice boat. > >Good Guess. The boat I was describing was a Caribou, but the boat I >ended up buying is a Mariner Express. > >I'm considering getting the Mariner Express paddling in rough seas. What's your opinion of the boat? What's it best suited for? When I visited the Broze brother's shop in Seattle last weekend, I also demoed the Elan. For my 6'2" 165 lb. frame, it was a bit tight, but perhaps doable for short few hour jaunts. The nice feature of the Elan is it's recessed combing and lower back deck. Seems in the Express some need to raise the seat (and resultant center of gravity) and fiddle with the seat back in order to lean back to complete a roll. >Nick Lyle > Nick, I paddle an Express with sliding seat. (Also a Solstice GTS) The sliding seat can be tuned such that there is absolutely no weathercocking in any wind. The Express is an exceptionally good boat in rough seas, very predictable, no twitchiness, surfs great and you can lean it way over and still have positive stability. If you broach on a wave it straightens itself out after the wave plays out. I think you are too big for the Elan. I have the same problem with the Mariner sliding seat. The back is way too high, and I cut it way down and put in foam. It is satisfactory now but not great. I bought the fiberglass sliding bracket from Mariner and have been looking for another seat to attach to it. So far unsuccessfully. I would like to get a Mariner II also but have not done so because of the seat issue. I also demo'd the Caribou in very strong (>>20knot) winds and found it to weathercock uncontrollably. I thought it was a dangerous boat and said so on paddlewise. I was thoroughly flamed by passionate Caribou fans. Go figure! Good luck with your Express. Jerry *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Gerald Foodman wrote: > > ...<snip>... > I also demo'd the Caribou in very strong (>>20knot) winds and found it to > weathercock uncontrollably. I thought it was a dangerous boat and said so > on paddlewise. I was thoroughly flamed by passionate Caribou fans. Go > figure! Sorry, Jerry, if you felt that you were being flamed. The intent was to enlighten, not to flame. We were simply pointing out that your conclusion was overly broad and not supported by the facts. There is a difference between saying "the boat is uncontrollable" and saying "I couldn't control the boat". Your experience with the boat implies the latter, not the former. Certainly your concerns may apply to some other paddlers as well, but it does not apply as an absolute. Others can control the boat easily, even in much more extreme conditions than you experienced. (Again, I'm sorry if you consider this to be a flame.) As for the Mariner sliding seat, if you find it uncomfortable, and if you feel you need some sort of adjustable system for adequate control, then why not add a drop-down skeg? This would allow you to fit whatever type of seat/backband you find to be the most comfortable. If you are concerned about jamming, fit a skeg with a metal rod rather than a cable for control. This makes it easier to work a jammed skeg free. "Light, not Heat" Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"As for the Mariner sliding seat, if you find it uncomfortable, and if you feel you need some sort of adjustable system for adequate control, then why not add a drop-down skeg?" said Dan, As I said before, I paddle a Mariner Express with a fixed seat and a lumbar pad on a strap. The boat ballances fine, surfs fine, turns fine, tracks fine. It does not need a skeg. I have also covered a lot of miles in a Mariner II without sliding the seat and I liked that boat a lot too. I think that the sliding seat is a refinement that some people like, but plenty of people don't bother with it. Differrent people will have differrent experiences in the same boat. I didn't find the Caribou uncontrollable, but it had a distinct weather helm, whereas my Express (with a fixed seat) has a true neutral helm. The Caribou is an exceptionally nice boat. I would like to try one out again one of these days. Nick Lyle *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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