Re: [Paddlewise] Grok Duel

    Very interesting idea. Just thinking about this idea I have a couple of
thoughts.
    My concern with this particular topic is that there are so many different
points of view. It isn't a clear cut rudder/no rudder argument. I have not heard
my own position approached very much here. Being a Quaker, I'm very comfortable
with having my point of view enunciated by someone else as long as the idea gets
out there. I'm wondering why I am not hearing it. Maybe my newbie point of view
is unrealistic.
    I'm learning a lot from the debate and it is making we rethink my opinions
about rudders. My lack of experience is a filter through which I hear and judge.
I have to recall how little I know experientially. I have enjoyed the traffic
and the ideas. I don't mind this process.
    I'd guess I'm not the only one out here who is observing without joining
either camp. In fact I'd guess that a lot of us are sometimes here an sometimes
there. Which camp would I go to if I wanted to join and then who would be the
arbiter of when something was correctly enunciated?
    I like the idea. I'd love to see it in action. Even if it fails to work
observation of the process would be instructional.

Joan

735769 wrote:

> This rudder/no rudder business just goes on and on and I would like to
> propose something- a "Grok Duel" -  that might help everyone concerned. It
> comes from Edward MacNeal, a regular contributor to ETC: The Journal of the
> International Society for General Semantics.
>
> The name comes from Robert Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land" and means
> to "to understand so thoroughly that the observer becomes a part of the
> process being observed ....etc."
>
> MacNeal felt that most arguments and misunderstandings stemmed from the
> parties not understanding each other's positions. He developed the "Grok
> Duel" as an aid in understanding.
>
> These rules govern  Grok Dueling;
>
> 1. Each party takes turns trying to state the other's position to the
> satisfaction of the other party. Parties may only use positive statements
> supporting an argument.
>
> 2. An unsatisfied party must state at least one particular in which the
> statement fails.
>
> 3. The first party to make a satisfactory statement wins. If the second
> party then replies with a satisfactory statement, the second party also
> wins.
>
> The opposing sides of this discussion can pick someone to represent them and
> send him or her their arguments supporting the opposing position, They, in
> turn, will post the arguments on paddlewise (this will cut down on list
> traffic).  No one else will post to the list on the topic.  Jackie will have
> to use one of her subtle chastisements to stop rogue posters.
>
> We could use "Pros and Cons of Rudders and Moveable Skegs  VS No Rudder or
> Moveable Skeg  on Sea Kayaks" as a topic. Because this will include a lot of
> people maybe the first post should include a list of those on each side.
> When over, Jackie could post the lists on the Paddlewise web site explaining
> how we created it.
>
> I have wanted to test this technique of MacNeal's on the Internet  for some
> time as I believe that the Internet actually inhibits understanding because
> of its "sound bite nature" and a tendency towards wanting to "win" arguments
> or make "points".
>
> For those interested the article describing Grok Dueling appears in ETC:
> Volume Fifty-Six Number Two, Summer 1999.
>
> If this experiment works I will write to Mr.. MacNeal who may even use
> Paddlewise as an example of improved understanding in a future article. If
> we agree to use this technique we should set a start date for I may ask
> MacNeal to monitor the discussion if he has E-Mail or thinks it worthwhile.
>
> Cheers,
> John Winters
> Redwing Designs
> Web site address, http://home.ican.net/~735769
>
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