>From: Jack Martin >Subject: [Paddlewise] Bars n' boats > >Have always used Yakima --- and sometimes Thule --- cradles to transport >my boats in the past, and have been very comfortable with the security and >support they seem to offer. With my new Audi --- an Avant (wagon) with >side rails --- I'd rather not leave the cradle and bike mount equipped >rack on the car permanently as I have in the past. Jack--I'm a relative newcomer to paddling, but I, too, have an Audi A4 Avant with side rails and I, too, don't like to leave the rack on the car permanently. I have the Yakima "DoubleCross" towers, bars and TLC saddles, and I've simply been taking the towers on and off when I want to use the boat. I leave the saddles--and the front wind deflector--attached to the bars, so I effectively only have two "parts" to put on the car. The DoubleCross towers take a lot of screwing (long threads that need to be backed out pretty far to clear the side rails), but I find I can get all four towers on--or off--in about 5-7 minutes. It's a pain, but it beats having the rack whistling over the sunroof when I'm not toting the boat. An alternative has occured to me, however. A local surgeon totes his Current Designs Expedition around on top of his fairly new Saab. I've been struck by the fact that he has _no_ rack, preferring foam blocks and straps going through his doors. What amazes me is how quickly he can leave the take-out, seeming to pop the blocks on the roof and strap the boat down in roughly the same time it takes most of us to get a boat into saddles. And this is on a sedan _without_ roof rails. So I've been looking at those fancy no-slip blocks at Rutabaga and I've been thinking that two 10-12 foot straps from Campmor could each be looped under the rails and that the whole set-up would be easier (no doors to mess around with) and more stable (longer roof line) than the Doc's Saab. And I know that the blocks are quicker to get on and off the car than the Yakima DoubleCross system. My thought is that I could use the foam blocks for a quick after-work paddle on my local river and step-up for the Yakima system when I'm taking the boat a greater distance. Whaddya' think? Jason Taylor Rosendale, NY ---------------------------------------------- Jason Taylor R. C. Schade & Associates Rosendale, New York jason_at_rcschade.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jason Taylor wrote: (SNIPPED PORTION COVERED TAKING FANCY THULE/YAKIMA RACKS OFF CAR FOR SAFE KEEPING) > An alternative has occured to me, however. A local surgeon totes his > Current Designs Expedition around on top of his fairly new Saab. I've > been struck by the fact that he has _no_ rack, preferring foam blocks and > straps going through his doors. What amazes me is how quickly he can > leave the take-out, seeming to pop the blocks on the roof and strap the > boat down in roughly the same time it takes most of us to get a boat into > saddles. My 14 year old mini-van finally gave up the ghost and I am now a renter of cars. So, I am using those kayak blocks for the first time. I bought just the block pads as I already had lots of webbing straps around from the former setup for the mini-van. The block pads I got were the wider ones that are offered by Campmor, which are 18 inch wide vs. 14 inch that come with the complete pads and tiedowns kit you can buy. The baptism of fire with them occured the other day. Winds were running around 40 mph and higher around here. I tied two belly straps (i.e. over the middle of the car) and through the doors. (The portable pad kits come with just one). For the bumper tie-downs I used a single webbing strap each at the bow and stern. The whole thing howled because of the wind and driving speeds. And while crossing the George Washington Bridge on the lower level, the 40+mph winds funneled to higher strengths. My rental subcompact car rocked a bit and the boat shifted around a tiny bit; still it was all pretty scary. With white knuckles I pushed on to Campmor, which was enroute. Bought the nice bumper tie-down kit which basically triangulates the support at the front and rear bumper (i.e. a teepee, 2 webbing straps setup for bow and stern). Opted not to use the little steel S hooks and replaced them with carabiners that I hooked through whatever frame hooks I could find under the front and rear bumpers. The boat settled down nicely. So the pads do work. A couple of observations: 1. Do use carabiners with bumper tiedowns as open hooks can always work their way loose. 2. Setting up the portable pads seems to take somewhat longer than throwing a boat on an already setup roof rack but it may be just a matter of practice. You set the pads up first on the boat using shorter webbing straps (you need snug down only a bit tight but not with a lot of force). Get the boat with its attached pads on the roof, which is a lot easier on low roof rental cars than it ever was on my mini-van because of less height lift. Then you run one or more belly straps over the boat and through the doors of the car (I have ridiculously long 20 foot straps for this, which I may cut down a bit, although you never know when you might need extra length). Then the front and back bumper ties, which are absolutely needed with the portable pads as opposed to the Thule and Yakima cradles and other accessories. (Some paddlers mentioned in Paddlewise that they don't use bumper straps with their Thules etc. but you would need these for the portable pads, period.) 3. I have a reader of my newsletter who has created his own portable pad setup and wrote it up for one issue. He has the full tiedown kit from Voyageur (which includes one belly strap, two straps for attaching pads to boat, two bumper tiedown teepee straps and four bumper S-hooks). But instead of the official pads, he uses those gardening kneeling pads found in Home Depot, Brookstone and other places. He places these on the roof of one of his two Lexus (he has a small tether so they don't fall off. He manages to carry two K-Lights regularly at California highway speeds for hundreds of miles with no problem for the boats nor the shiny roofs of his shiny expensive cars. So, it is a nice variation of the theme. > And this is on a sedan _without_ roof rails. So I've been > looking at those fancy no-slip blocks at Rutabaga and I've been thinking > that two 10-12 foot straps from Campmor could each be looped under the > rails and that the whole set-up would be easier (no doors to mess around > with) and more stable (longer roof line) than the Doc's Saab. And I know > that the blocks are quicker to get on and off the car than the Yakima > DoubleCross system. If you go for these blocks, you may want to get the wider ones as their underneath slot is bigger and looks like will fit on the crossbars of factory roof racks better than with the smaller 14 inch pads that have smaller slots. I see no reason why you could not use the belly straps as you describe, i.e. around the rails of the factory roofrack. But again for added safety, do use the front bumper teepee straps to the bow of your boat and similar setup at the boat's stern and rear bumper. Oh, one added thought. With belly straps running through doors or around factory roof rack rails, you are going to get a lot more strap howling at high driving speeds than you would ever get with the close in ties on kayak saddles and similars. The advise they give is to knot the webbing straps in several places or to twist them a few turns. This does quiet them down significantly. Since I am in rental cars with varying widths, door configurations etc, I hesitate to put knots in the webbing that may affect adjustment and just use the twists. But if you are using them in your own car either through doors or on to roofrack rails, then you could experiment on where to place knots and leave them in the webbing straps. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:57 AM 10/20/99 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >So the pads do work. A couple of observations: > >Oh, one added thought. With belly straps running through doors or >around factory roof rack rails, >ralph diaz >-- If you run the straps thru the doors don't forget to have the doors open when you do or you will strap the doors shut and will have to do it all over again with the doors open. Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 02:15 PM 10/20/99 -0400, dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net wrote: >At 10:57 AM 10/20/99 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > >>So the pads do work. A couple of observations: >> >>Oh, one added thought. With belly straps running through doors or >>around factory roof rack rails, >>ralph diaz >>-- > > >If you run the straps thru the doors don't forget to have the doors open >when you do or you will strap the doors shut and will have to do it all >over again with the doors open. I carried my 17' fiberglass boat from Ithaca to the outer banks in North Carolina and back on the top of a car with foam pads, webbed straps through the doors and triangular bow and stern lines. Once I got it strapped down it was rock solid. However, on the way down in rained most of the way and those webbed straps soak up water real well. It comes right down the strap so that it drips slowly on your shoulder. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 20 Oct 1999 dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net wrote: > At 10:57 AM 10/20/99 -0700, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > >So the pads do work. A couple of observations: > > > >Oh, one added thought. With belly straps running through doors or > >around factory roof rack rails, > >ralph diaz > If you run the straps thru the doors don't forget to have the doors open > when you do or you will strap the doors shut and will have to do it all > over again with the doors open. sounds like the VW commercial, where the guys tie the mattress to the car with the doors closed, while the light is red, then the light turns green, and they try to open the doors to drive away!! this is only a problem in a sedan, in a coupe, there aren't any window frames, so you can open & close doors all day with no effect!! mark -- #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com----http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark ---- # mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [_| [_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.jacknjillz.com/paddler [index to club websites i administer] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- Fortune: A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. - English Proverb *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/20/1999 2:28:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net writes: << If you run the straps thru the doors don't forget to have the doors open when you do or you will strap the doors shut and will have to do it all over again with the doors open. >> LOL - sounds like the voice of experience chirping up here!!! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 02:43 PM 10/20/99 EDT, Sandykayak_at_aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 10/20/1999 2:28:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time, >dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net writes: > ><< If you run the straps thru the doors don't forget to have the doors open > when you do or you will strap the doors shut and will have to do it all > over again with the doors open. >> > >LOL - sounds like the voice of experience chirping up here!!! Back in the good old days when I use to canoe it happened several times when you get in a hurry, now I just stand back and watch other people do it and when they are thru just smile as they pull on their doors and nothing happens, that kind of smile, been there done that:( Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Wed, 20 Oct 1999 dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net wrote: > when you get in a hurry, now I just stand back and watch other people do it > and when they are thru just smile as they pull on their doors and nothing > happens, that kind of smile, been there done that:( Oooh, and you don't warn them. Shame on you. e Elaine Harmon - eilidh_at_dc.seflin.org - eharmon_at_cs.miami.edu *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Re Jason's idea of using the side rails of his Audi Avant (wagon) in conjunction with foam blocks resting on his roof: neat idea. Don't see why it wouldn't work, but I've got a brand new Audi with really beautiful silver metalic paint, and I don't think I'd chance scraping the finish. Also would wonder --- if the vehicle has a sunroof --- if there's room on the roof for the forward block. (About 99% of the Audis I looked at last summer had sunroofs.) Another option (which we Audi lovers are discussing in greater detail off line) is to use Audi's own crossbars, but a set from Audi costs what a whole set of Yakima bars and cradles costs, and is only a little quicker and easier to install than a Yak (and, I would assume, a Thule) system. Those, with padding (which is how this thread actually started) makes a pretty solid platform, but really require (as Ralph pointed out) bow and stern triangulated lines, too). Plain Yak bars with pads and a Kayak Stacker setup at the centerline is almost as solid as using cradles, and could offer the lateral support you'd need --- and might get you out of using triangulated (or any) bow and stern lines. But that's not to open up that "bow and stern tiedown" thread again, please! Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > > Re Jason's idea of using the side rails of his Audi Avant (wagon) in conjunction with foam blocks resting on his roof: neat idea. Don't see why it wouldn't work, but I've got a brand new Audi with really beautiful silver metalic paint, <SNIP> I suspect that long term use of the pads can ruin the paint on cars- especially silver metallic. I have a silver Grand Cherokee which now has severe paint damage on the front of the roof- right where the soft fabric bags for our XC skis rested while transporting them. No damage was visible until the clear coat started peeling off. I had a similar problem also from ski bags on an older Jeep. No problem for rental cars but I think you're right in worrying about a new Audi. :) Walt Chudleigh Park City, UT (Has nice kayaks and canoes but beat up trucks) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
mmm...all these high falutin' Audi/Lexus owners in our midst......didn't realize this was such a high class joint we belong to!!! Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:04 PDT