I made the original posting on this topic, but left out a few things I learned in my quest that might be helpful to others with oddball aplications. Yakima also sells tracks and a track-mount tower. However, it did not make one for my car. If it had, I would have gone Yakima. Yakima and Thule both sell 5" long sections of rain gutter, some to be mounted on vertical surfaces and some on horizontal surfaces. However, they are supposed to be through-bolted and require removal of your headliner, a 1.5 hour job for the experienced. Also, they require that the bolted-to area be flat. Lastly -- unlike a track -- they are unattractive when the rack is removed. Moreover, the load bar spacing cannot be varied. Ken Cooperstein *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Interesting option. A couple of things concern me though (may all ready be obvious): One: I'd be real careful to figure out where the strongest part of the roof is to mount these on. I can just see someone loading up a couple of kayaks and having the roof dent in. (This may happen to the same people who runs straps through their windows preventing access through the doors :) ). Two: Since the rack is held with screws into the roof, do the screws present a danger to occupants inside? I'm thinking the headliners in most cars wouldn't protect you against sharp points if you bumped your head against them. I've never taken a headliner down but I'm thinking it's most likely a project. Maybe this stuff is covered in the instructions? Other than those two thoughts this looks like a pretty good option. Thanks for the idea. (PS - I'm also glad to read not everyone in PW land is driving an Audi or Lexus) -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Cooperstein [mailto:cprstnc1_at_optonline.net] Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 6:51 PM To: paddlewise, paddlewise Subject: [Paddlewise] Nifty roof rack for my Hyundai Accent 2-door I learned after the fact that ther is no extender kit for the Hyundai Accent 2-door and all you can get is load bars 14" apart -- Yakima or Thule. My solution: Proline, a manufacturer of aftermarket racks, will bend up a pair of black aluminim "Mule" tracks to your specified length and curvature for $35 (the tracks without the rest of their rack). You can further fine-tune the curvature somewhat by hand. These mount with 3 or 5 screws into your roof with self-sealing screws. Then Thule Track II towers can be fitted to the tracks. I was able to get my 50" load bars 36" apart. Looks like a factory rig. Moreover, $150 is a lot less than the $300 the rack outfits ask for an extender kit, and I prefer to have my rear towers attached to the car rather than the ether. Proline: http://members.aol.com/prol1ne/mule.html Ken Cooperstein *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joe Brzoza wrote: > > (PS - I'm also glad to read not everyone in PW land is driving an Audi or > Lexus) Well, me too. As I mentioned earlier, I no longer own a vehicle but now rent. My rentals are nice and cheap and involve several models of Hyundai's, which are just fine for my purposes. I use portable roof pads because I think the rental company might frown on my drilling holes in the roofs of their cars. Besides, it would be a drag to constantly be drilling holes in each individual car that I rent. The prospect of such might actually sway me into knocking down my kayaks into their foldable mode. While considering all the adaptations that must be made to install a permanent or semi-permanent rack for kayaks, one might think in terms of the portable pad setup that I use. It takes just a few minutes longer to use. And if it is your own car (and not the variety of cars I face in rental fleets) you could knock down the time to about what it would be to put a kayak on a permanent or semi-permanent rack as you would know where to hook the bumper tie downs (in my case of rentals, each model requires my probing around each time to find points to which to connect hooks or carabiners, etc.), what width to set the pads at, etc.. So do consider the portable pads as an option even for your own car, and even if it is a Lexus. As mentioned, one of my readers has two Lexuses (or is the plural, Lexi?) and uses a portable pad system that is not even a specialized one but rather centered on garden kneeling pads. If he is willing to use these on his pride and joy, they must work not only as good kayak carriers but also will not mar the roofs' finish. But, of course, if you want to blow $300 or more on a sophisticated Thule or Yakima setup instead of spending the difference (the pads run around $40 including all straps) on better things such as lighter paddles, and have the permanent setup eating into your gas mileage when not sporting kayaks, be my guest. ralph :-) -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > (PS - I'm also glad to read not everyone in PW land is driving an Audi or > Lexus) I'll go one better - 1978 toyota corolla with homemade roof racks and homemade cradles. A bit of bomb but utterly reliable and simple to work on even for a mechanical ignoramus like me. Wreckers yards are littered with them so parts are cheap and easily available I once had a newer car and it was a pain. Expensive to fix, electronic bits etc. I could write this car off tomorrow and, financially, it wouldn't really matter in the scheme of things Sold it, bought the corolla ($AUS1500) and a hand built recumbent bicycle ($AUS3000), and pocketed the difference. nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> > (PS - I'm also glad to read not everyone in PW land is driving an Audi or > Lexus) I think that shuttle vehicles can be more interesting than people (present company excluded). If I can get a picture scanned at some time, I'll post a picture of my 73 VW Thing. It had a wooden park bench for a front seat, no roof but it did have a 2x4 frame for carrying boats. I have a picture of it parked alongside of a new Lamgorghini Diablo. Quite the example of contrasting styles. Bruce WEO www.wholeearthoutfitters.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 10/25/1999 8:14:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nicholas.gill_at_adfa.edu.au writes: << Sold it, bought the corolla ($AUS1500) and a hand built recumbent bicycle ($AUS3000), and pocketed the difference. >> Regardless of the value difference between Ozzie and US dollars, you ARE telling us that your bicycle cost you twice as much as your car, aren't you! And they say the Yanks are funny! Sandy Kramer (a Heinz 57 mutt) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yak sells a system a little like this, too, and they provide mounting screws --- think they call them "Plus-nuts" or something like that --- that work the same way as the system described. (They also provide thru-bolts if you're able to pull the headliner to secure them form inside.) Looks like a good system, and seems to distribute the weight over a pretty long and solid interface with the roof. (Oh, and about Audis --- they're not all luxury cars, guys! Mine's nice and utilitarian. Selling price just about the average for new cars these days. Lay off!:) Jack *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Tue, 26 Oct 1999 JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com wrote: > Real-To: JCMARTIN43_at_aol.com > > Yak sells a system a little like this, too, and they provide mounting > screws --- think they call them "Plus-nuts" or something like that --- > that work the same way as the system described. (They also provide > thru-bolts if you're able to pull the headliner to secure them form > inside.) Looks like a good system, and seems to distribute the weight > over a pretty long and solid interface with the roof. i'll have to dig up my post about this ;-) but we have several older cars w/raingutters, and our newer one didn't. we bought the artificial raingutters jack is referring to, and took them to a body shop, and had them install these babies... the body shop took out the headliner, and found the strongest part of the roof, and installed these there... all for less than a new rack [but not much!!] now we can put any of our 'yak racks on this car... when we went to the bodyshop to drop the car off, we took another car with the racks on it. we then showed the shop how strong the rack should be, by having me climb up on the rack [on our honda accord]!! they got the idea!! a couple weeks later, when i had our 17' aluminum canoe, and three plastic sea kayaks on the roof, i stopped by and showed them!!! their jaws dropped, but you could grab any boat and shake, and the whole car shook. this was the way to go for us. worth every penny we spent. the set up works by putting bolts through the "gutter" then the body of the car, then through another plate on the inside of the roof. basically it sandwiches the roof between two plates... makes it VERY solid. YMMV mark -- #------canoeist[at]netbox[dot]com----http://www.diac.com/~zen/mark ---- # mark zen o, o__ o_/| o_. po box 474 </ [\/ [_| [_\ ft. lupton, co 80621-0474 (`-/-------/----') (`----|-------\-') #~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~~~~_at_~~~~~ http://www.jacknjillz.com/paddler [index to club websites i administer] Rocky Mtn Sea Kayak Club, Colorado River Flows, Poudre Paddlers The Colorado Paddlers' Resource, Rocky Mtn Canoe Club Trip Page -- Fortune: A smooth sea never made a skillful mariner. - English Proverb *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I've had the Yakima roof-bolted system, using the Thru-bolts (not removing headliner), on my mini-van for a little over two years now, and it's as close to perfect as anything I own. With fear and trembling, I installed it myself, and installation was easy. It's a great system. The towers and racks go on or off in one piece, taking just about 4-5 minutes total for mounting or for dismounting. The towers are, of course, lockable - not that a reasonably dedicated thief would have tourble picking the locks. Oh, and by the way - the bars don't roll when I put the boats on the van or take the boats off. I have no explanation of why I haven't had trouble, when many others have had it. - Bill Hansen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>><< Sold it, bought the corolla ($AUS1500) and a hand built recumbent bicycle ($AUS3000), and pocketed the difference. >> >Regardless of the value difference between Ozzie and US dollars, you ARE >telling us that your bicycle cost you twice as much as your car, aren't you! >And they say the Yanks are funny! What's funny about spending twice as much on a bicycle as a car? I'm absolutely serious. Spending the equivalent of a small house or a cruising yacht on a noisy polluting machine, that in the UK alone accounts for the bloody slaughter of some 3000 people each year isn't even funny its insane - and the millions of blinkered people who do it every year have no comprehension of the practicality or joy of owning a hand built bicycle. Would you think it mad to spend twice as much on a handbuilt kayak as a jetski? Nothing peculiar about spending twice as much money on a recumbent as a car in my books. Quite the opposite. Cars do have their place though (on the streets of towns and cities just isn't it in my books), and I feel honoured to have owned/own the two ultimate shuttle vehicles - a 1978 2 litre VW bay window camper, replaced last year by a 14 year old Landrover 110 V8 CSW. As far as I know you yanks are unfortunate that 110 inch wheel based landrovers (NOT to be confused with Discovery/RangeRover/earlier series leaf sprung landies) weren't exported to the states, so Americanos you'll just have to take my word for it that it is the ultimate shuttle vehicle. VW busses and Landies have rain gutters and therefore can use cheap strong racks designed to carry stuff, not the fashion accessories adorning the roofs of many a shiny new suv. I attach my boats to them with J-cradles supplied by KCS (http://www.kayak.co.uk). Very secure. No bow or stern lines needed for long distance cruise at 80mph. 4 sea kayaks on the roof at once with ease. These cradles fit any rack system, using bracket technology developed for the engineering industry - nuts and bolts! http://www.kayak.co.uk/doc/sp3-8.htmand - they are as they say 'the dogs bollocks'. Cheers Colin Calder 57º19'N 2º10'W *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
look like good stuff at KCS I'm with you on the car stuff. A useful nuisance is how I see cars. I really bought my first one mainly for kayaking. I'd never really owned a car for more than a few months before that. I use my car more than I'd like now due to knee hasssles but still ride to work a couple of times a week and get around on it locally. As bike commuters will know a ride to work is fun, exciting, sometimes exhilirating. Drives to work are dull in my book. I love riding in winter here in canberra. It gets cold for Australia and in the morning it is often frosty, below zero and beautifully clear and crsip. I love those mornings on the bike, you warm up after a fewminutes. Most people think you're mad but they just don't know what they're missing. I can't imagine buying a new car - all that depreciation. I wish car manufacturers would get back to gutters. A futile hope I think. My ex and i had a subaru liberty, in addition to the corolla. Nice car (she has it now, well it was actually hers) but roof racks for it cost hundreds of $$s. Madness. What happened to simple, cheap, proven technology? These flash roof racks are certainly not immmune to failure as has been demonstrated here on occasion,. My homemade ones were made by a friend who previously owned the car. They are legs off an old set of roof racks with wooden 2x4s bolted to them. Very solid. My cradles which i've used for some years on a range of racks are scrap wood bases (varnished) and some foam from an old body board shaped with a sureform. the foam is glued to the wood base which sits on the racks. To better fit roof rack bars I attached two thin pieces of wood to the underside of each each cradle so that they fit snugly onto the bars. My friend now has a an old subaru wagon and made some more roof racks. I directed him to Northwest River supplies in Idaho who sell roof rack legs for guttered cars. He got a set and some more 2x4s and made some new racks. nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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