Hi All, I recently pondered aloud to a group of sea kayakers that I had noticed a personality "type" that is driven and eager to accomplish a certain kind of outdoor "feat" such as circumnavigate a large lake, or be the first to paddle solo across a wide expanse, paddle 600 miles alone in a short number of days, or conquer some other outdoors challenge. I wondered about this because while I love to kayak (and bike and ski and snowshoe), I don't really have a need or desire to do this sort of thing. I'm happy just to paddle and while I would love to say circumnavigate Lake Superior, it isn't something I feel I need to do -- it doesn't have more appeal than other trips I can go on. So part of my curiosity is -- what is this about? What makes people want to paddle to conquer? (I realize it's not just paddling, of course.) The second part of my outloud musing was that it seems to me that, more often than not, these folks are men. So I wondered (and this got me into a bit of hot water since I'm female) whether there was some gender thing going on here (and *I* wasn't the one to use the word testosterone!). Anyone have any thoughts on this? -Jody *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I believe it is much easier to request 6 months off from work to snowshoe blindfolded across Antarctica, than it would be to request a warm and sunny Tuesday morning off to paddle an uncrowded bayou. It places the burden of being "unreasonable" where it belongs. Additionally, does it seem less reasonable to bankrupt oneself in behalf of a quixotic journey, as opposed to owning 16 kayaks, paddled at best, a few days each per year? What does strike me as unusual is those folks who "journey" to suffer. The "hardship " of travel was already becoming passe by the late 19th Century. Much of today's "hardship" is inexperience, poor-planning, foolishness, or very bad luck. "Hardship" is little more than self-indulgent decadence. As for my decadently self-indulged opinionated self? I prefer very long canoe trips in the bug-dom of northern Canada, in the very maw of that which the Canadians call "Summer". ----- Original Message ----- From: jrussell <jrussell_at_pclink.com> To: <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Saturday, November 13, 1999 8:27 PM Subject: [Paddlewise] Conquering Kayakers? > Hi All, > I recently pondered aloud to a group of sea kayakers that I had noticed a > personality "type" that is driven and eager to accomplish a certain kind of > outdoor "feat" such as circumnavigate a large lake, or be the first to > paddle solo across a wide expanse, paddle 600 miles alone in a short number > of days, or conquer some other outdoors challenge. I wondered about this > because while I love to kayak (and bike and ski and snowshoe), I don't > really have a need or desire to do this sort of thing. I'm happy just to > paddle and while I would love to say circumnavigate Lake Superior, it isn't > something I feel I need to do -- it doesn't have more appeal than other > trips I can go on. So part of my curiosity is -- what is this about? What > makes people want to paddle to conquer? (I realize it's not just paddling, > of course.) The second part of my outloud musing was that it seems to me > that, more often than not, these folks are men. So I wondered (and this got > me into a bit of hot water since I'm female) whether there was some gender > thing going on here (and *I* wasn't the one to use the word testosterone!). > > Anyone have any thoughts on this? > > -Jody > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
jrussell wrote: > > So part of my curiosity is -- what is this about? What > makes people want to paddle to conquer? (I realize it's not just paddling, > of course.) The second part of my outloud musing was that it seems to me > that, more often than not, these folks are men. So I wondered (and this got > me into a bit of hot water since I'm female) whether there was some gender > thing going on here (and *I* wasn't the one to use the word testosterone!). > Not me! I love to gunkhole around, investigating every little cove and bay, wandering up into rivers, look past the next point and gaze at everything that passes under my kayak. Island hopping trips are great, but I have no desire to do a long crossing where I see nothing but deep water for hours on end. I'm too old to prove anything to the world and young enough to wander and explore. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
jrussell wrote: > What makes people want to paddle to conquer? (I realize it's not just > paddling, of course.) The classic answer is "... because it's there." Perhaps appropriate in light of the recent discovery of the remains, high on Everest, of the guy who first uttered it. The existential answer is "... conquer? Conquer what? We paddle (climb, sail, triathalon, you name it) to explore our inner reaches and personal limits." The first is not really an answer. The second one attracts me. For me, difficult stuff is a personal test or exploration, and not a conquest. How can anybody "conquer" an inanimate object? After the summit has been mounted or crossing transited, they are both still ... **there.** What is different is me -- sometimes in profound ways, sometimes simple. An endorphin rush, a calming of the inner voices and psyche, sometimes an insight or two. Maybe a few somewhat stronger muscles, or a better understanding of my companions, even ... intimacy with a loved one who shared the experience. Conquer? I don't think so. > The second part of my outloud musing was that it seems to me > that, more often than not, these folks are men. So I wondered (and this got > me into a bit of hot water since I'm female) whether there was some gender > thing going on here (and *I* wasn't the one to use the word testosterone!). Is it chicken and egg? Do more men do difficult stuff because more men are interested in it, or do fewer women do difficult stuff because they did not get as big an original endorsement of testosterone? There is some evidence that doing difficult paddle trips (etc.) elevates testosterone levels (I think). This issue is perhaps an imponderable. As well, to ask the question this way suggests it is somehow "wrong" to assert oneself within a natural environment. Finally, there is evidence of a unique psychology associated with folks who **must** test themselves repeatedly -- they are driven in ways the rest of us can never understand. Maybe the best evocation of this syndrome is Jim Wickwire's paean to self, "Addicted to Danger" (see below), if you can get past the "me ... me ... me" tone. A close second is Maurice Herzog's classic, "Annapurna." When Art Hebert writes his book, maybe we'll get more insight! (Hurry up, Art!) Addicted to Danger: US$14, Pocket Books, ISBN 0-671-01991 -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR (definitely NOT addicted to danger!) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
John Fereira wrote: > > At 10:00 AM 11/15/99 -0800, James Lofton wrote: > >Shawn W. Baker wrote: > >> > >> (SNIP) > >> I think there are a few female paddlers who are motivated to conquer, > >> but by and large, the vast majority of them are men. I'm sure > >> "conquering" is not their sole motivator, but I'm sure it's a large > >> factor in a lot of guys' paddling exploits. I can't speak personally > >> for her, but does anyone know what Audrey Sutherland's motivations are > >> for paddling such long distances? > > > >While I don't know her, and wouldn't speak for her even if I did, I will > >offer my personal quess. I think it may be a very simple case of love for > >being out there. > > And she's been doing it for 20 years so she must really love it. > > >What's wrong with having a child like > >curiosty of "what's over there"?, that drives one on.? > > In this case, that child is 80 years old. As Chris Duff said, "I want to > be Audrey Sutherland when I grow up." > All I know about her is that a week or so ago I saw her on the Anyplace Wild show. She was asked if she ever gets lonely. She responded yes, that she does somethimes when she is alone in, say, a US forest cabin, or some other place that humans reside. She went on to say that when she was alone and camping out, that she was not like a human any longer, but more like the other plants and things. That small statement told me a great deal about her. And about growing up. Been there and done that. It ain't all it it's cut out to be. :-) James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James Lofton wrote: > > John Fereira wrote: > > > > At 10:00 AM 11/15/99 -0800, James Lofton wrote: > > >Shawn W. Baker wrote: > > >> > > >> (SNIP) > > >> I think there are a few female paddlers who are motivated to conquer, > > >> but by and large, the vast majority of them are men. I'm sure > > >> "conquering" is not their sole motivator, but I'm sure it's a large > > >> factor in a lot of guys' paddling exploits. I can't speak personally > > >> for her, but does anyone know what Audrey Sutherland's motivations are > > >> for paddling such long distances? > > > > > >While I don't know her, and wouldn't speak for her even if I did, I will > > >offer my personal quess. I think it may be a very simple case of love for > > >being out there. > > > > And she's been doing it for 20 years so she must really love it. > > > > >What's wrong with having a child like > > >curiosty of "what's over there"?, that drives one on.? > > > > In this case, that child is 80 years old. As Chris Duff said, "I want to > > be Audrey Sutherland when I grow up." > > > > All I know about her is that a week or so ago I saw her on the Anyplace > Wild show. She was asked if she ever gets lonely. She responded yes, that > she does somethimes when she is alone in, say, a US forest cabin, or some > other place that humans reside. She went on to say that when she was > alone and camping out, that she was not like a human any longer, but more > like the other plants and things. That small statement told me a great > deal about her. > I have met Audrey only a few times but she is my hero through and through. A couple of things worth noting: --she doesn't cover great distances in any one day. --she prides herself in having every item she carries being able to do double or triple duty. --this triple duty imperative allows her to take pride in another feature of her gear...she is able to lug boat and camping gear herself through airport terminals. --Audrey is a tarp person through and through in addition to a tent. it is a central focus of any campsite. It weighs next to nothing. --no matter what, she has a set of clothing with her that would let her walk into any fancy lodge in the world and not look like a swamp rat. --best of all for the several ladies on this list who believe they are old-timers, Audrey I believe is somewhere in her 70s. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 03:01 PM 11/15/99 -0800, rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: >James Lofton wrote: >> >> John Fereira wrote: >> > >--she prides herself in having every item she carries being able to do >double or triple duty. The specific example that I liked was that she would buy "wine in a box" and then use the foil bag the wine came in as her kayak seat. >--Audrey is a tarp person through and through in addition to a tent. it >is a central focus of any campsite. It weighs next to nothing. The gist of the presentation that I saw was the "low tech" (which translates into low cost) approach to paddling. During her slide show she had a couple of pictures in succesion of an encounter with another paddler on one of her trips down the Alaska coast. She took a picture of the other paddler in his 18' kevlar kayak with the compass and GPS unit on the deck. It was followed by a picture of her sitting in her 13' inflatable. >--no matter what, she has a set of clothing with her that would let her >walk into any fancy lodge in the world and not look like a swamp rat. She also does a thing where she'll buy clothing and supplies where she can find them and them mail them to a post office further along her route. >--best of all for the several ladies on this list who believe they are >old-timers, Audrey I believe is somewhere in her 70s. I recently read that she just turned 80. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com wrote: > > > > > I have met Audrey only a few times but she is my hero through and > through. A couple of things worth noting: > > --she doesn't cover great distances in any one day. > > --she prides herself in having every item she carries being able to do > double or triple duty. > > --this triple duty imperative allows her to take pride in another > feature of her gear...she is able to lug boat and camping gear herself > through airport terminals. > > --Audrey is a tarp person through and through in addition to a tent. it > is a central focus of any campsite. It weighs next to nothing. > > --no matter what, she has a set of clothing with her that would let her > walk into any fancy lodge in the world and not look like a swamp rat. > > --best of all for the several ladies on this list who believe they are > old-timers, Audrey I believe is somewhere in her 70s. > > ralph Thanks Ralph. I'm glad to hear from someone that has met her. From what little I saw on the show(Anyplace Wild), I came away with the feeling that she was a very special person, that also happened to be a remarkable woman! I also noticed the size of her pack. I'm sure my smallest folder wouldn't have fit in the bag, yet she had all her gear. This also encluded fins, snorkel and mast, a gadget that looked like a grubbing hoe(she used this to shuck cocanuts), and last but not least, she pulled out that inflatable kayak. I could only sit there and smile. Does she have a book out on her travels along the coast of Alaska? James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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