All sophistry aside (entertaining though it may be), unless the list excludes info on sailing by rule, I'd love to hear more about what can be done with the wind to move a kayak. Larry Koenig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: "Larry Koenig" <paddlin_at_home.com> > All sophistry aside (entertaining though it may be), unless the list > excludes info on sailing by rule, I'd love to hear more about what can be > done with the wind to move a kayak. > Larry Koenig Hi Larry, Though it has often been discussed here without any complaint about it not being included on the intro, I've decided to add "kayak sailing" under the topics of discussion on the list intro ( http://www.paddlewise.net/intro.html ) Maybe this will help. Another topic that has often been discussed here but was not specifically indicated on the list was boat design. I've added that as well alongside boat building. So far, the folks here have been mostly intuitive about what is acceptable and what is covered under the umbrella of these topic suggestions on the introduction. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Larry Koenig wrote: > > All sophistry aside (entertaining though it may be), unless the list > excludes info on sailing by rule, I'd love to hear more about what can be > done with the wind to move a kayak. > Larry Koenig > > Hi Larry, I'll have to cut this short(lunch break over), but I couldn't help but drop a quick line. I see that you have, among several others, a greenlander. Not knowing much about the other kayaks you have, I would say that the greenlander would make a wonderful sailer. In a nut shell, adding sailing to your kayaking is as, well.., remember when you found out that that those silly girls were more fun to be around sometimes than the guys...? Well, so is a kayak when you hook it up with a sail! You havn't taken anything away, just opened up a whole new way to enjoy being on the water. I have been "dabbling" with it for several years and can only call myself a dabbler still. I do know you can make your own downwind sail or go full hilt and get top of the line BSD batwing, complete with BOSS outriggers. You can go anywhere in between. I do warn you that the first time you get that free ride that there may not be any turning back. :-) Nice thing about it is there are lots of gadgets to mess with and learn the names. I also notice your paddling area is a prime area for this. Maybe Mark will notice your post and clear up any of my slurries.. More later, got to run. Good to see more interest! James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>All sophistry aside (entertaining though it may be), unless the list >excludes info on sailing by rule, I'd love to hear more about what can be >done with the wind to move a kayak. >Larry Koenig Two things I have done, both with great fun and success: 1. I took a standard nylon golf umbrella and used it as an "umbrellaker." Simply open and hold with the wind behind you (or to the sides). I steer with my rudder and can't see real well, but with a good wind it moves me as fast as I can paddle. My first umbrella was shot after 2 1/2 hours of sailing (it kept turning inside out), so I got another and ran nylon cord from the top down to the handle along the spokes (so it looks like a parachute with a handle). I sewed this to the spokes with carpet thread. Then I used stardard sewing elastic to put tension on the cords so that when I folded up the umbrella the elastic would pull the cords up into the umbrella so that they would not hang limp and tangle on everything. It works great but of course is only good for basic down wind sailing. If the wind is too strong from behind, you can reverse the umbrella so that it is behind you and the rounded surface of the umbrella is facing the wind. 2. I purchased plans for a kayak sail rig from Chesapeake Light Craft and constructed it. You can see it on their website. It has amas and akas constructed of wood, and a leeboard as well as a slighted larger rudder. I used an old windsurfer sail and the thing flies. It is a wet and wild ride and required some tinkering to get it to sail correctly but it is beautiful and quite fun. It sails upwind without problem. By the way, there is a kayak sailing email posting list like this one. The address is kayak-sail_at_shipwrecked.com Yours, Mike Nelson *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Larry or wisepaddlers, I posted a reply to this yesterday. I never got a copy back to my mailbox. My only local ISP which is in someones garage is not 100% dependable so I don't know if my message did not make it out or did not make it back to me. Can someone tell me if my reply to this made it to the list? Thanks Mark Larry Koenig wrote: > > All sophistry aside (entertaining though it may be), unless the list > excludes info on sailing by rule, I'd love to hear more about what can be > done with the wind to move a kayak. > Larry Koenig *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Larry Koenig wrote: > > All sophistry aside (entertaining though it may be), unless the list > excludes info on sailing by rule, I'd love to hear more about what can be > done with the wind to move a kayak. > Larry Koenig First, let me say that I am having some problem relating to my e-mail. I don't know if there is a problem with my e-mail client regarding the reply or reply all buttons or if my rather undependable ISP is misrouting mail. My computer and e-mail client are old and may be suffering compatibility problems. I am also getting excessive Java error messages on the browser. I have sent a reply to the list that seems to have be received by some and not others, something that Jackies says may not be possible. Now I have heard from a list memeber that I replied to directly who says my personal reply went to the list for which I am sorry, it was not addressed to the list when it left my desktop. The one that went to the list never made it back to me on the list so I am not sure what the problem is. With this in mind, I am going to go inactive for a day or so while I try to work this out. This is the only list I am having the trouble with as far as I can tell. Meanwhile here is the text of one of the troublesome postings and reply to above, that a list member has been kind enough to return to me. Sorry for any trouble this has caused. BTW this is reply all so a copy should go to Larry and the list just to test. Mark It would be helpful to me if your stated interest was less broad so please let me know if you have a specific type of kayak sailing in mind. You can sail a kayak on any point of sail. Considering that most were not designed with sailing in mind, kayaks as a class sail pretty well. As you would expect, the more serious the sailing one wishes to attempt, the more serious the gear one would need. As unpopular as it is in some places, a rudder is normally used for most kayak sailing that I am aware of. Of the thousands of sailing kayaks that I personally know of, all or most all of them have rudders. You can keep adding gear until the kayak will sail in most available sailing directions relative to the wind. You can sail to windward with many types of sails and to some extent with the newer traction kites. You can sail just for recreation or for touring or cruising. My personal kayaks range from a 9.5 ft whitewater kayak which is my primary daysaling boat, for small kayaks I am also rigging a planing hull Kaos SOT surf kayak for high performance traction kiting, up through several hardshells and one other folder sailing kayak to my Nautiraid Grand Raid double which is suitable for inland or ocean cruising. The Nautiraid has a screened bivy tent type cover for the cockpit area for sleeping aboard at anchor in bad weather or bug country and is being adapted for longer crossings solo under sail and paddle. So you can see that the range of uses for a sailing kayak is fairly wide. Some reasons why someone might want a sailing kayak beyond the pure fun of it might be for the benefits of extened range and speed on cruises or the safety of alternate propulsion when ill or injured. I know a man who sailed home through a gale across an estuary to the mainland with the flu when he was way too sick to paddle. With the gear I use, my normal wind range for sailing starts at 5 to 8 knots and tops out when the gusts reach about 45 depending upon water conditions. The fastest I have sailed in a kayak was probably near 15 though in good conditions, sustained reaching speeds of 5 to 8 can be considered common. Hoever my traction kite powered Kaos might break new ground next spring. That is the best basic broad answer I can give you, is there any specific part of kayak sailing you might be interested in? I hope this is helpful. Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Mark Balogh <batwing_at_kerrlake.com> > First, let me say that I am having some problem relating to my e-mail. > I don't know if there is a problem with my e-mail client regarding the > reply or reply all buttons or if my rather undependable ISP is > misrouting mail. My computer and e-mail client are old and may be > suffering compatibility problems. I am also getting excessive Java > error messages on the browser. I have sent a reply to the list that > seems to have be received by some and not others, something that Jackies > says may not be possible. What is more likely, I think, is that some folks who might think they saw your reply to that message actually saw an earlier reply of yours. Of course, when you send a message as "reply all" the original sender of the post you are replying to will receive your message (along with whomever else happens to be in the copy line which is sometimes multiple addresses, I've noticed). Bob will correct me if I'm wrong here... but if your message is received by folks on the list that are not in the cc line, then it was received by the PaddleWise server and sent on. Since my name is the first on the subscriber list and email goes out in that order, if I didn't see it, I don't suspect it was ever received by the PaddleWise server. > Now I have heard from a list memeber that I > replied to directly who says my personal reply went to the list for > which I am sorry, it was not addressed to the list when it left my > desktop. Well, though you may not have intended for it to be addressed to the list, there is no way it would go to the list without you instructing your server to send it to the list. Sometimes folks hit "reply all" and don't realize they did. It does happen that folks send private messages and the receiver *thinks* it was posted to the list and when they reply, they either forward or address the reply to the list. It happens to the best of us :-) > The one that went to the list never made it back to me on the > list so I am not sure what the problem is. With this in mind, I am > going to go inactive for a day or so while I try to work this out. This > is the only list I am having the trouble with as far as I can tell. Most problems folks have show up with a list such as PaddleWise because it is so active. I can't tell you how many error messages I receive each day because server failures at some ISP's. I also receive error messages in response to each message that goes out from the list for each subscriber whose mailbox is full. A lot of email lists are set up so that if you only hit the reply button, then your reply goes to the entire list. This is, imo as well as many other list-owners' opinions, improperly set up as the sender is not *really* the list but the individual sending the message. There is also a bigger opportunity for private replies to end up being posted to the entire list when a listserver is set up that way. The best way to make sure your reply goes to the entire list is select "reply all" then delete any extra names other than PaddleWise unless you want the person to whom you are replying to get your reply twice. These days, due to spam, many servers are being configured in strange ways to prevent spamming or "relaying" (the unauthorized use of their server by a spammer to relay spam). Sometimes this prevents email from PaddleWise being received by your server (I get those error messages, too). This is usually the result of erroneous configuration of a server. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Mark Balogh wrote: > (MAJOR SNIP) to my Nautiraid Grand Raid double which is suitable for inland or ocean cruising. The Nautiraid has a screened bivy tent type cover for the cockpit area for sleeping aboard at anchor in bad weather or bug country and is being adapted for longer crossings solo under sail and paddle. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Mark, could you tell us a bit more about how you have set this boat up? Did you remove the center rib(frount backrest), or how do you set it up for sleeping. The bivy part is something I have toyed with in my head for years, but never have started sewing. Can you get it quickly out of the way for paddling/sailing?? I travel sometimes at night to avoid heavy wind, and have had to tie to submerged stumps at night, to await daylight, so as to navigate narrow channels at the mouth of some rivers. A shelter that I could put up easily on my folbot(the bugs know you can't hide)seemed nice, but I also feared having something in my way if I needed to paddle quickly. Anyway, when you can find the time, myself, and I'm sure others would find it interesting. Thanks, James *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
James Lofton wrote: > > Mark Balogh wrote: > > > > (MAJOR SNIP) > to my Nautiraid Grand Raid double which is suitable for inland or ocean > cruising. The Nautiraid has a screened bivy tent type cover for the > cockpit area for sleeping aboard at anchor in bad weather or bug country > and is being adapted for longer crossings solo under sail and paddle. > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Mark, could you tell us a bit more about how you have set this boat up? > Did you remove the center rib(frount backrest), or how do you set it up > for sleeping. > The bivy part is something I have toyed with in my head for years, but > never have started sewing. > Can you get it quickly out of the way for paddling/sailing?? > > I travel sometimes at night to avoid heavy wind, and have had to tie to > submerged stumps at night, to await daylight, so as to navigate narrow > channels at the mouth of some rivers. A shelter that I could put up > easily on my folbot(the bugs know you can't hide)seemed nice, but I also > feared having something in my way if I needed to paddle quickly. > > Anyway, when you can find the time, myself, and I'm sure others would > find it interesting. > > Thanks, > > James James, The quick answer is I don't know if my method could be used on a Folbot in the same way because of the difference in the coamings/washboards. The Folbot skin attaches to the bottom of the coaming unlike many folding kayaks where the skin wraps inside the coaming to attach to the top. Since it would have to be done differently and because I don't know how quick you would need to remove it, I am not sure. I will give a quick overview of my set up but it is a work in progress and I am constantly changing and improving my whole rig. I bought one of these full screen two hoop bivy type tents with fly on sale for like $49 which was cheap enough to use in an experiment. First I made drilled some 5/8" diameter fiberglass poles to accept the ends of the tent's hoops. These rest across the coamings. I stretch the ends of the tent out and attach to strong points on the deck with adjustable lines and snap hooks. I drew a line on the tent bottom to the shape of the coaming. I cut out the hole, used the removed fabric to make a hem for the edge of the hole. You need to make arrangements in the hem for the two cross tubes and in my case my sail rig cross tube. Essentially on my boat there is a bungy draw string in the hem that snaps under the lip on the coaming. On the Folbot you might have to use snaps or velcro to make a tight fit to keep the bugs out. My Grand Raid is deep in the cockpit so I did not need to remove the top of the center rib. I am configuring this boat to be sailed from more than one seat position and with single or multiple rigs in different locations so sometimes the mid rib seat support is in and sometimes out. You also need to do something to level the bottom so the ribs don't dig into your ribs. One way I have tried is small closed cell foam pads between the ribs and then a normal sleeping pad. I have seen some small inflatable pads someplace that might be good for that. I really don't have much chance to try it out as work is too busy so I really can't say what the fastest set or douse time might be for this set up but I expect it could be removed in a couple of minutes if pressed. Mine only opens on one side. If it opened on two, one might paddle a short way to relocate if they were able to handle their anchor line from the tent. I seem to recall a similar tent set up mentioned on a Klepper in Ralph's newsletter. Mark *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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