Doug Lloyd wrote a posting to qualify some of the descriptions of his more dangerous experiences as being something that the novices among us should avoid. I sensed an apologetic tone in his posting. I suspect that he was speaking for the group, since some recent postings have been about conditions that could be very dangerous for a novice. I, as a 2nd year novice with considerable technical skills and no shortage of confidence, fit the profile for one who could read these postings and charge off halfcocked to duplicate some of the more dangerous scenarios. I believe I speak for many new kayakers who entered the sport as maturing adults, rather than bravado filled 20 somethings. Are we not the captains of our own ships? Masters of our domain? As a relatively new kayaker I, for one, have no difficulty differentiating between the adventures, and experience, of our elite members and my own, significantly less demanding (mundane) escapades. The descriptions of risks taken increase my understanding of the possibilities. My, newly acquired, technical skills and equipment enable me to get myself into some serious trouble, if I were so inclined. The articles that I read from PaddleWise keep me cautious and expand my awareness of the potential for disaster. They have also up to this point kept me safe. The "Don't try this at home" caveats are clearly implied in every article that I have seen on Paddlewise. That a novice dies while paddling does not mean it was paddling that killed him. It just means he was paddling when he died. The ocean is a vast and wonderful thing, is there anyone, kayaker or non, who doesn't keep a healthy fear of it's potential for danger? Doug, I've enjoyed you postings very much and hope they continue ad nauseum. If you feel the need to warn some of us, go for it, it's your right. I hope you'll continue to amuse and amaze us. I plan to be an expert coastal kayaker someday, but until then, I'll study the teachings of PaddleWise as I refine my judgment and perfect my skills. Paddle On! Jed *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> <snip> > And if you want me to continue to be part of Paddlewise, you will just have > to put up with me and some of my ramblings and dangerous paddle-play > antics, because that is part of who I am. I just don't want to be accused > by our list mom or anyone else of promoting unsafe paddling practices to > newer, impressionable paddlers. Thanks for listening. Doug wrote me privately about this but I thought I'd go ahead and pass my comments to Doug about this point on to you folks here.... My only purpose here is to see that the topics remains on-topic (or reasonbly so, anyhow :-), to prevent spam, commercial advertisements, chain email, and flaming. Other than that, there is no policy with regard to content. There are far too many folks here with *much* more experience than what I have that can clarify or bring to task, correct, or otherwise comment on content here. I might have my 2 cents worth I want to add to an on-topic subject, but other than that, I play no role other than observer/learner/commenter/subscriber. Cheers :-) Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/14/00 5:03:26 AM !!!First Boot!!!, dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca writes: << I always get a bit guilty after posting some kind of example of derring-do. Whether it is myself and whirlpools, or Duane talking about surfing or X rescues, or someone else discussing a long crossing or cave exploration trip, I always have a concern that newbies to the sport who have just joined Paddlewise the might be tempted to try to over do it, or even have a bit more cavalier attitude toward safety >> Mr. Doug, I, for one, enjoy your postings tremendously. I apreciate your candor and humility (at times). I also worry about newbies getting in over their heads after reading postings by some of the more "adventuresome" members of P'wise. I have no intention of opening the ACA Vs BCU Vs Self instruction can of worms. I would apreciate the opportunity to share some of my experience as a paddler, Paddlesports business owner, instructor and Paddlewiser (although most often lurker). This experience pertains to sea kayaks and canoes primarily. It is my experience that people paddle for different reasons. The extreme majority have no intention or desire to become a Tsunami type paddler. Most of us paddle for the relaxation and exploration of environment and self. Some paddle for exercise. And a small percentage (believe it or not) paddle for the rush. Of the three groups identified, I would say that the "rush" paddlers are the most likely to participate in advanced lessons. This is a good thing. The most important factor is that skills match your paddling environment. We have an expression in the South, "Don't let your Alligator mouth get your Hummingbird A** into trouble." I enjoy P'wise very much. I would offer this caution to readers. There are many self proclaimed experts in this activity, as in just about any facet of life, whether it be gardening, woodworking or computers. The difference here being that EVERY TIME YOU GO OUT ON THE WATER, YOU PUT YOUR LIFE AT RISK. Weigh and manage your risks carefully. Do not allow yourself to be coerced into doing something that you are not "properly" prepared for. Even if they call you chicken. These are my views, based on experience. They are not an open invitation for flames or assassination. I am not attempting to "bait" anyone. I will leave that to the "master" baiters and you know who you are. Doug, keep on keepin' on. Thank you for your support, Bruce McC WEO www.wholeearthoutfitters.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Responding to the group about Doug's and Jackie's recent posts - I'm another paddler with vastly less experience and desire to do "hair boating" in sea kayaks, but I do like to read about the experiences of those people who have the ability and desire to do those things. When those folks write about their more-athletic adventures, they have usually included notes about the fact that they're not typical paddlers, and they know they're not. That might be important to the newcomer. In fact it has seemed to me that there's a strong bent toward safety in almost all of the posts to this group. That's another thing I like about the group. Doug, Dave, Chuck, TomC, and others - keep those cards 'n' letters coming. Bill Hansen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/14/00 8:18:55 AM Central Standard Time, Outfit3029_at_aol.com writes: << Weigh and manage your risks carefully. Do not allow yourself to be coerced into doing something that you are not "properly" prepared for. Even if they call you chicken. >> SK had an interesting article along this topic several years ago. My memory is a little fuzzy so please excuse me if the details are a little off. A group was doing a long day-trip circumnavigation of some islands. Weather was worse than they expected but not beyond what most of them had paddled before. One of the less experienced paddlers did turn around and go back immediately when he saw the open water conditions as they left the protected launch area. They were doing ok but conditions just got worse and worse. They were approaching a spot (apparently the last spot) where they could cut across to the protected side of the islands and head back (significantly shortening the intended trip). The author described his concerns about the trip and more importantly his concerns about being the wimp in the group. Should he cut the trip short and face the ridicule of his fellow paddlers? Finally he decided that he was opting for safety over machismo. He told the others what he was going to do and turned and headed off ALONE toward the cut through the island. A few minutes later he looked back and the entire group was following him. Everyone had been thinking the same thing, but no one wanted to be the first to "quit". After finishing the trip and dicussing what had happened, they all had a new respect not only for the author, but especially for the paddler who was "courageous" enough to turn back at the beginning. I would also suggest that novices be careful of the "I am really safe in a group" syndrome. Groups can provide lots of resources that make a trip safer, but even groups can get in trouble. There is a special problem when everyone in the group is at the same paddling level. If conditions are bad enough to capsize one paddler, then they are bad enough to capsize all the paddlers. In such a situation you may be virtually on your own even though you are with a group. I was once caught in a summer thunderstorm with winds above 30 mph where, for about 20 minutes, I could not even see the other paddlers in my group, much less help them (or get help from them) if anything had gone wrong. ( I know for some of you 30 mph is a light breeze but it was and still is a major deal to me). I often tell new paddlers to "Paddle Several, Think Solo" ie, take advantage of the additional safety of groups, but evaluate your skills, gear, and the trip conditions as if you were paddling alone. Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
... >Should he cut the trip short and face the ridicule of his fellow paddlers? >Finally he decided that he was opting for safety over machismo. He told the >others what he was going to do and turned and headed off ALONE toward (the short safe way home) ... I like the technique used by a fellow paddler last fall. She had ten years kayaking experience, I had less than 6 months. The rest of the group had split off earlier. Winds were much stronger than expected. After asking me if I wanted to find a way to short cut the paddle, she pulled to the shore at one spot and asked some hikers if there was a place nearby where she could call for a cab. Now, I knew darn well that cab wasn't for her ... It was to give me a non-threatening "out" if I didn't feel up to the short gusty crossings in the last mile home. I opted to continue but I honestly appreciated the gesture. jerry. >Mark J. Arnold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net> > > From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> > <snip> > > > And if you want me to continue to be part of Paddlewise, you will just have > > to put up with me and some of my ramblings and dangerous paddle-play > > antics, because that is part of who I am. I just don't want to be accused > > by our list mom or anyone else of promoting unsafe paddling practices to > > newer, impressionable paddlers. Thanks for listening. > > Doug wrote me privately about this but I thought I'd go ahead and pass > my comments to Doug about this point on to you folks here.... Just to clarify 8-) The above quote from Doug I included in my last message to PaddleWise was posted to PaddleWise by Doug and did not come from the private message he sent me which, had I posted here without his permission, would have been a violation of list policy. I'd have to whack myself over the head with my keyboard if I did that *-} Just an fyi for those that might have been confused 'bout that. Cheers, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/14/00 10:17:24 AM, LedJube_at_aol.com writes: << Doug, I've enjoyed you postings very much and hope they continue ad nauseum. If you feel the need to warn some of us, go for it, it's your right. I hope you'll continue to amuse and amaze us. I plan to be an expert coastal kayaker someday, but until then, I'll study the teachings of PaddleWise as I refine my judgment and perfect my skills. >> Me too. You lead me to trust you and to WANT to list to you. I can't say that about some others, who seem to have an attitude that challenges others to follow them. I hope that with the leadership. advise and guidance of you and others of your experience and wisdom, to become an experienced paddler. I'm not even close yet. I spent about 15 years working on understanding what wisdom is. I can define it for myself now but it is hard to communicate the dynamic nature of my vision. For me wisdom is the intersection of experience and understanding. What you wrote is paddling wisdom. It is where the body knows how to react before the intellect understands the situation. Yet the mind knows it safe limits and what challenges to accept. That is a 3-D knowledge of paddling. I have this desire to have that level of paddling knowledge. I keep doing "it" (everything), over and over so my body knows more than my mind. I work to "do" it rather than understand the process. Understanding comes with the doing of it. I have that with my horses. I don't need to "know" what to do because I must do it even before my intellect can engage. I have gained so much over the past 9 months of paddling. I did my first "unintended" wet exit into the Potomac a couple of weeks ago and was so pleased that I wasn't scared and that when asked if I still had my paddle that I hadn't even thought about the paddle but it was right there in my hand. I had practiced enough to not even have to think about keeping it in my hand. I made her and she stays with me! I have done as advised and stayed in fairly safe conditions so the 600+ mi les I've paddled is as much the repetition as anything else. I have gone out in some winds but honestly, I didn't do anything that pushed my skills very far yet. I've been into endurance and rhythm, though I'd like to go a lot farther. I have been so impressed with this group and CPA. I have learned so much from what you and other people here have offered. Even the "what is not the best idea to get into" stories have been very helpful in making choices. Keep it up and don't let the nay sayers get you down. Joan Spinner * * * Paddling the Chesapeake Bay watershed In a red, CD Breeze or a yellow/white Dagger Meridian SK *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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