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From: Doug Lloyd <dlloyd_at_bc.sympatico.ca> subject: Re: [Paddlewise] baidarka Back Support Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 23:06:10 -0800 · This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:07 PDT

I posted a message to the baidarka mailing list _at_
<baidarka_at_lists.intelenet.net> and
was pleasantly surprised with two responses from this obviously mature
group of paddlers and baidarka builders. I've been a lurker on their list
for a while, put have never posted before, lest I "get under their skin" -
what with me being a hard-case hardshell paddler who likes stiff kayaks!

Just before showing you the results, I wanted to thank Jack Matin for his
response, as it was one of the few when I posed the question on PW. Jack,
if you remember, said that Mr. Padilla Jr. used a sleeping pad "partly up
against the vertical coaming ring, and leaned back against it...The after
deck on his boat was very low, probably well below waist height, so there
was no back or even lumbar support, although it appeared that he used it in
leveraging some [...]" 

The other responder (to Jack, in this case), was Greg Stamer. Greg said
Maligiaq stored his boat at Greg's house and let him use it. Greg said
"that the deck beam immediately behind the cockpit rim, on which the back
of the coaming rests, is the back support. This provides solid support, low
on your back and does not interfere with techniques that require you to lay
on the afterdeck. Some Greenlanders make
the back support wider than a normal deck beam and slightly curved to
comfortably cradle the back..." and that the foam pad made it "easier to
enter and exit the kayak
(which was less than 6" deep) and to make a comfortable seat..." and that
the "pad helps prevent your heels from snagging on the ribs during entry
and slides forward as you wriggle in." Greg, thank you for adding your
insight.

My question to the Baidarka list was thus:

>>This is my first post to the list. I have been lurking for a couple of
years now. I intend to build a baidarka within the next 5 years, but don't
have the time now, unless you consider reading the info and saving web
sites, etc, from this great list as preparatory work. I have referred a
number of people to the list too.>>

>>My question stems from a Paddlewise issue regarding back-support for your
lower back. Could someone let me know what different approaches were used
traditionally to outfit kayaks for adequate lower back-support.>>

>>I would like to pass on the info generically. I will also need to know for
my own boat one day. Hope this is not too dumb a question. Thanks in
advance.>>

One of the responders said that they did not know the traditional
approaches, but did express their own need for a firm lower back support in
at least the baidarkas they have built, and that was the reason why they
had lowered the deck on a wooden
baidarka. 

The other responder was an excellent poster by the name of Ralph Hoehn,
living in
Stamford, CT, at <RCH3149_at_aol.com>, who made one general comment on the
traditional use of backrests, or rather lack thereof (-1-), plus two
non-traditional solutions (-2- and -3- below):

>1 a) - The two British gentlemen John J. Ramwell and John Brand (et al), 
>emminences grises in kayakig an the history thereof, report that there is no 
>evidence that traditional kayaks were ever equipped with any form of 
>backrest. Inuit may at times have rested against the aft end of the coaming, 
>but it appears more likely that the "ball joint" theory originated with
them, 
>preceding its advocacy by the Germans quoted below.
>
>1 b) - I'm in the process of translating from the German original an 
>excellent instructional "Primer for Folding Kayak Builders". It contains the 
>results of German white water "Eskimo"-kayak building tradition since the 
>1920s. The boats, by the example of which the building techniques are 
>illustrated, are based on various Greenland types, although adapted for
white 
>water use in certain details (rounded stem and stern post transitions into 
>the keelson, for example). The strict advice is to keep the lower back 
>completely free to pivot "like a ball joint", so as to accomodate the need
to 
>react to highly agitated water. The same applies in rough coastal
conditions, 
>of course.
>
>2 - The author does admit, though, that this may not be possible for hours 
>and days on end, unless you are born and bred to paddling. On quiet
stretches 
>of water, he reports having been very satisfied for years relying for lumbar 
>support on a well stuffed dry bag, wedged into the space behind the seat. 
>
>3 - His most recent addition to his boats is a back rest consisting of two 
>thin vertical slats, slightly twisted towards one another, with enough of a 
>gap in between to ensure that no vertebrae come into painful contact with
the 
>wood. The cross piece is also shaped to avoid any bone contact. The bottom
of 
>the assembly is equiped with two pegs, which engage any pair of a series of 
>holes in the aft end of the seat. This allows for adjusting the angle. The 
>top end merely rests against the aft part of the coaming. The whole 
>contraption should be secured by use of a strap to avoid losing it during a 
>wet exit and also to prevent it from being pulled forward while the paddler 
>seats himself. have this strap run from the cross piece to the bottom of the 
>frame at the aft end of the cockpit.

Ralph said that if I wished to publish the above  on "paddlewise", for good
order's sake, then I was to please cite as the source Messrs. Brand and
Ramwell, as well as Mr. Lorenz Mayr, the German folding boat author; and
that if I were to mention his involvement by way of the translation work,
that it might then help future awareness and enhanced distribution of the
book, once it has been published -- hopefully still this year.

I was feeling a little weird after posting to PW earlier last week that I
didn't use much in the way of back support anymore -- just a bit of a
bum-stop and a padded cockpit rim if I lean back, and that one should
remember to always allow for free torso rotation with any seating
arrangement. I see I'm in good company now. Maybe I've got native Eskimo
blood in my family lineage. That would explain why I blubber-on about stuff
:-)

BC'in Ya
Doug Lloyd (who says we should add Macho to the banned-word-list, along
with Sp*ns*ns)

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