--(1/23/00 8:51 PM) PaddleWise wrote: >Seriously, if you are going to purchase a vehicle to complement your >kayaking, get a modern one --one with decent fuel economy, good suspension >systems and one that is low enough so that you will not obstruct others' >view >of the road. > >It only takes a little self esteem to get over the pick-up/sport (sic) >utility (sic) vehicle thing. Hear hear! And don't forget that auto manufacturers make a lot more money on the light trucks and SUVs-- you get a lot more vehicle for your money in a real car (along with better handling and safety.) Sandy's got an Accord wagon, which is a fine car. She should get a newer wagog to get the benefit of ABS brakes and airbags. My short list (were I Sandy): --98 VW Passat wagon --96 Volvo 850 wagon --96-98 Subaru Legacy wagon (Outback version _higher_ up...) --00 Ford Focus wagon (good value, if you can get past the look of the thing) However, if she insists on getting up higher in the air, the old-body-style Odyssey is--I think--an Accord chasis with taller sheet metal just as the CR-V is a Civic chassis made taller. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 01/23/2000 10:29:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, Phlopz_at_aol.com writes: << Seriously, if you are going to purchase a vehicle to complement your kayaking, get a modern one --one with decent fuel economy, good suspension systems and one that is low enough so that you will not obstruct others' view of the road. It only takes a little self esteem to get over the pick-up/sport (sic) utility (sic) vehicle thing. bob phillips industry professional (Don't ask) >> "Don't Ask" he says!!!! Of course we want to know which industry etc. And you didn't even throw in any suggestions for a vehicle. tch tch tch Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From the thread about autos to carry kayaks - << Seriously, if you are going to purchase a vehicle to complement your > kayaking, get a modern one --one with decent fuel economy, good suspension > systems and one that is low enough so that you will not obstruct others' >view of the road. > > It only takes a little self esteem to get over the pick-up/sport (sic) > utility (sic) vehicle thing. My 1990 Mazda MPV makes a decent kayak carrier. It is old enough that I'm not concerned with the scrapes and dings and paint marks that inevitably come from solo loading of my canoe and kayak onto it. (The worst came from an unexpected gust which spun me and my Navarro Loon into the rear door.) An old car, not too high, no leather seats to stain is a good thing for water sports. My 1999 GMC Yukon with leather seats, etc., is about the worst canoe/kayak carrier. It is too high, and too expensive. I did a shuttle a couple of weeks ago which meant having my wife pick me up with the Yukon and I sat in the leather seat wearing my wetsuit. Big mistake. Leaving the Yukon with its CD player, etc., in a run down neighborhood while my son and I paddle leaves me worrying about the car instead of relaxing. Don't spend too much on a kayak car. When the Mazda gets too old for its job (soon) I think a kayak trailer may become my preferred solution. Then the only problem will be to find someone who wants to pay good money for a used minivan well into six figures on the mileage complete with canoe dings, blue paint marks, and a persistent smell of wetsuits. jerry. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Jackie; If you want to block this message I will understand. I don't want to start a flame war here. Gypsykayak_at_aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 01/23/2000 10:29:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, > Phlopz_at_aol.com writes: > > << Seriously, if you are going to purchase a vehicle to complement your > kayaking, get a modern one --one with decent fuel economy, good suspension > systems and one that is low enough so that you will not obstruct others' > view > of the road. > > It only takes a little self esteem to get over the pick-up/sport (sic) > utility (sic) vehicle thing. > > bob phillips > industry professional > (Don't ask) >> > > "Don't Ask" he says!!!! Of course we want to know which industry etc. And > you didn't even throw in any suggestions for a vehicle. tch tch tch > > Sandy Kramer > I have been trying not to reply to this one. The last comment about pickups and sport utility vehicles being only for those with low self esteem galls me. I have no problem with my self esteem, and I have owned more pickups and sport utilities than sedans. The reason? There are some things that cannot be done with a standard passenger car. Every vehicle I own works for a living, I don't buy a pickup to profile in I buy it to haul things with. If I can't afford two vehicles then the pickup becomes a commuter as well. The comments made earlier about camping in the back of a pickup is valid, there aren't any station wagons I know of that will give you a full six feet plus of room to stretch out in. If you get a two wheel drive version (you don't live in the snow belt, right?) they can be low enough to put the kayak on by yourself. The use of rollers does help there. For those using Thule racks (like me), I have been toying with the idea of using a roller from a boat trailer mounted beside the saddles to roll the boat up on then lift over to the saddles. Does anyone have any suggestions along those lines? As for which brand of pickup, I prefer Dodge, but the small Dodge (Dakota) is a bit larger than the ones the other manufacturers make, and taller. Which one you buy if you do go for a pickup is a very personal decision, I wouldn't dream of telling you what to buy. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Phlopz_at_aol.com writes: << It only takes a little self esteem to get over the pickup/sport (sic) utility (sic) vehicle thing. >> Certainly you could have composed a line that better expressed your point. There are many people for whom the above vehicles are required for uses other than "just" kayak transport. I too have difficulty understanding why people who live in the city insist on owning SUV's or pickups. But I understand fully why a country dweller would require such a vehicle and for them there may be no better choice. Jed (yes I live in the suburbs . . . of New Hampshire) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I have found that my beat up old '85 Ford 3/4 ton truck can comfortably carry all 5 of my kayaks at one time. I have built a 2 tier rack out of 2X4 's (the idea was stolen from a vehicle parked in a Victoria B.C. area parking lot). I have absolutely no animosity about standing on the hood or cab of the truck, because of it's already numerous rust spots and scratches. It is a gas guzzler and not pretty but I can use the money I saved on buying a new vehicle on more important purchases like a new kayak. :) Jim *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 01/24/2000 1:40:43 PM Eastern Standard Time, mnoyes_at_gsinet.net writes: << have been trying not to reply to this one. The last comment about pickups and sport utility vehicles being only for those with low self esteem galls me. I have no problem with my self esteem, and I have owned more pickups and sport utilities than sedans. >> Lighten up, Mike. I live in Florida - as in FLAT - SUVs (and 4WD at that) are definitely status symbols nowadays. And the Lexus one is a beaut - if I didn't have to worry about yakkin' about (and had beaucoup moolah), even I might be tempted. There's the Lincoln Navigator and I even saw a Cadillac SUVs. Trendy. Those of us who are comfortable with ourselves and our choice of vehicles don't need to take umbrage at someone else's opinion. I want something I can leave my boating and camping gear in all the time. Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
The best vehicle I've seen yet was an early 80's looking Winebago with about 10 WW kayaks tied to the roof. Of course it came with the prerequisite, hairy, hippie-looking dudes. I can just imagine what the interior looked/smelled like. I saw it this past August or so near Boothbay Harbor, Maine - in case it was someone on this list. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--(1/24/00 3:05 PM) Jim Meldrum wrote: >I have found that my beat up old '85 Ford 3/4 ton truck can comfortably >carry all 5 of my kayaks at one time. I have built a 2 tier rack out of 2X4 >'s (the idea was stolen from a vehicle parked in a Victoria B.C. area >parking lot). Sounds great, but I'll bet its not your _only_ vehicle. A dedicated boat vehicle, even a beater, is a real luxury (for one thing, you don't have to unload the boats between paddles). Sandy is looking for something that will be her only car, and modern safety features (airbags, ABS, etc) as well as predictable emergency handling are probably a good idea. Take care, Jason *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 01/24/2000 5:24:47 PM Eastern Standard Time, jason_at_rcschade.com writes: << Sandy is looking for something that will be her only car, and modern safety features (airbags, ABS, etc) as well as predictable emergency handling are probably a good idea. >> and don't forget the CRUISE CONTROL!!! Sandy *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks Sandy, I have a Cherokee, not 4 Wheel drive. You may be too short for it to work for you. Mardi has a hard time with it at 5'2" but at 5'7" it is simple for me. Get the Outback. It is the right height and will run forever. Just check for mileage and salt resistance. Rust will kill you down there before anything else. don't buy the Luxus unless you buy one of Matt's boat to put on top. Mariner is definitely "IN" these days. Ask him if he makes any SOTs. (Hi Matt, I'm back in the market for a boat.) As far as my Jeep Cherokee goes if you, of such sagesty, know of a better car to haul 2 kayaks, carry all the camping equipment, the dog , and pull the horse trailer, let me know. I didn't need the 4 wheel drive because that only helps once I'm stuck, which I know how to keep from being. It may not get the best mileage but it beats the hell out of driving 2 cars because everything, plus people and dogs don't fit. If you have such a gripe, talk to the makes of such thing to insist they make them more environmentally friendly. BTW, I looked at the tail pipe ratings on my Jeep and they are better than on my Nissan Pulsar. They may be allowed to be lower but it seems they can actually be higher. What is allowed and what happens just may be two different stories. <<Lighten up, Mike. I live in Florida - as in FLAT - SUVs (and 4WD at that) are definitely status symbols nowadays. And the Luxe's one is a beat - if I didn't have to worry about yakkin' about (and had beaucoup moolah), even I might be tempted. There's the Lincoln Navigator and I even saw a Cadillac SUVs. Trendy. Those of us who are comfortable with ourselves and our choice of vehicles don't need to take umbrage at someone else's opinion. I want something I can leave my boating and camping gear in all the time.>> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi all, << It only takes a little self esteem to get over the pickup/sport (sic) utility (sic) vehicle thing. >> Hmmm. I never transported any of my kayaks _on_ a car. Folding kayaks :) The best transport was with an old taxi on Vancouver Island. The baidarka and my brother´s Greenland kayak just fitted into the trunk; crosswise, _from_left_to_right_ :) Cheers Hendrik *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There's been much support for getting little gas miser cars like the Geo, but I have to ask are they really designed to carry multiple kayaks, gear and occupants? Seems to me once loaded they wouldn't be able to get out of their own way, and the brakes and suspension would be heavily taxed - which wouldn't make for the safest of situations. We've all seen the cars that look like their doing wheelies down the road because they're so weighted down. I don't mean to pick on little cars, I've had my share. I just don't like abusing my car by making it do something it wasn't supposed to do. I've squatted my poor Jetta down too many times now - time for me to get a truck. And then I won't be fretting each time I fill it up with gear. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Joe Brzoza wrote: > There's been much support for getting little gas miser cars like the Geo, > but I have to ask are they really designed to carry multiple kayaks, gear > and occupants? The Geo/Swift/Firefly/Whatever versions of the Suzuki car are a "peanut" car in my mind. Not suitable for highway driving and hauling lots of gear. I know - I leased one for a summer when I had an out-of-town contract. Three cylinders and not enough track means you get blown off the road when a kid on a tricycle goes by. The Civic VX and Golf/Jetta/Beetle TDI use engine technology to get performance out of a "normal" sized small car. The Civic is much more solid in the wind and sports a 92 hp, four cylinder engine - plenty of power for those who don't suffer self-image problems. These are two different classes of cars with roughly the same fuel economy. The latter class is more expensive. > Seems to me once loaded they wouldn't be able to get out of > their own way, and the brakes and suspension would be heavily taxed - which > wouldn't make for the safest of situations. We've all seen the cars that > look like their doing wheelies down the road because they're so weighted > down. Two sea kayaks and a rack are about the same weight as one small person. The gear I carry for two on a long weekend's trip weighs about the same again. Not what I'd consider an excessive load and well within the ratings for the car. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 1/27/00 10:58:19 PM, michaeldaly_at_home.com writes: >Two sea kayaks and a rack are about the same weight as one small person. >The gear I carry for two on a long weekend's trip weighs about the same >again. >Not what I'd consider an excessive load and well within the ratings for >the car. Within the weight ratings, certainly. But what about factoring in the additional wind resistance load (s) both just plain going down the road, and also in crosswinds? A 4 cylinder with 2 'yaks on the roof, while not overloaded weightwise, may be for long trips "resistance" wise. The engines, transmissions, axles, and even the tires, are not made to endure these loads. Yes, I used to haul a 19' boat around behind a 72 Capri 4 cyl, so yes, I know it can be done. Doesn't make it right tho. Course, as a mechanic, I say please do push that baby way harder than it was intended, cause I love to bill those repairs out! Ultimately, buy what you need. Keep in mind, we all have different needs from our vehicle. My full size diesel pickup is certainly now what most people would buy to haul a 'yak or three. But since I tow heavy trailers daily, its what I need, so I bought it. If your lifestyle is such that a moped with a 'yak trailer works, please, buy it and get on with life.... Scott Dieselin along, north of Cuba *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
MadPoodle_at_aol.com wrote: > > michaeldaly_at_home.com wrote: > > >Two sea kayaks and a rack are about the same weight as one small person. > >The gear I carry for two on a long weekend's trip weighs about the same. > >Not what I'd consider an excessive load and well within the ratings for > >the car. > > Within the **weight** ratings, certainly. But what about factoring in the > additional wind resistance load (s) both just plain going down the road, and > also in crosswinds? [snip] Anecdote in support: Couple years ago, I loaded a big double and a large single atop my '87 Mazda PU and took off for Canada. A hundred miles later, the strain of pushing that profile at freeway speeds revealed my radiator was shot. (Fortunately, there was a good radiator shop at the exit where it cratered -- trip salvaged!) My "normal" driving pattern did not push that light PU much. Haulin' yaks in quantity *did.* > Ultimately, buy what you need. Keep in mind, we all have different needs from > our vehicle. My full size diesel pickup is certainly not what most people > would buy to haul a 'yak or three. But since I tow heavy trailers daily, its > what I need, so I bought it. If your lifestyle is such that a moped with a > 'yak trailer works, please, buy it and get on with life.... I like that, Scott ... errr ... Mr. Poodle. You summarized perfectly my shot at this thread. A compact pickup with a low-profile canopy fits my needs perfectly, but maybe not anybody else's. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > MadPoodle_at_aol.com wrote: > > > > michaeldaly_at_home.com wrote: > > > > >Two sea kayaks and a rack are about the same weight as one small person. > > >The gear I carry for two on a long weekend's trip weighs about the same. > > >Not what I'd consider an excessive load and well within the ratings for > > >the car. > > > > Within the **weight** ratings, certainly. But what about factoring in the > > additional wind resistance load (s) both just plain going down the road, and > > also in crosswinds? [snip] > Point taken. See below > > Anecdote in support: Couple years ago, I loaded a big double and a large > single atop my '87 Mazda PU and took off for Canada. A hundred miles later, > the strain of pushing that profile at freeway speeds revealed my radiator was > shot. (Fortunately, there was a good radiator shop at the exit where it > cratered -- trip salvaged!) My "normal" driving pattern did not push that > light PU much. Haulin' yaks in quantity *did.* > But I keep my car in good condition <g>. I drove from Toronto to Nova Scotia and PEI & return with those loads, in the heat of the summer and the car seemed to enjoy it. Give or take some scaling factors, there's probably a speed where the aerodynamic behavior of a kayak is comparable to its behavior in water at low speed. If I was ambitious, I could probably figger out some guestimate of the forces. But I'm not. My driving several years with one or two kayaks on the Civic tells me the most significant effect I can sense is its braking distance. And that's due only to the weight. And its speed up hills - again weight. I only use my car for weekend stuff - skiing, hiking, kayaking etc. Almost all the miles are high-speed highway or dirt roads in the middle of nowhere. It has so many miles with the kayaks on top that I have to believe it's surviving well enough. There may be some long term, extra wear and tear on the engine etc, but it hasn't shown in 70,000 km. If I eventually rebuild the engine and it lasts another bunch of years and kilometers, that's fine with me. YMMV. > > > Ultimately, buy what you need. Keep in mind, we all have different needs from > > our vehicle. My full size diesel pickup is certainly not what most people > > would buy to haul a 'yak or three. But since I tow heavy trailers daily, its > > what I need, so I bought it. If your lifestyle is such that a moped with a > > 'yak trailer works, please, buy it and get on with life.... > > I like that, Scott ... errr ... Mr. Poodle. You summarized perfectly my shot > at this thread. > > A compact pickup with a low-profile canopy fits my needs perfectly, but maybe > not anybody else's. The only problem is that _most_ folks grossly overestimate their needs. That's why the SUVs are the top selling and fastest growing sector of the automobile industry. 4WD and 5000 lb and most have never been off the pavement. I'd better drop out of this thread. I have nothing good to say about the auto industry (think about it - all significant technological changes in cars in my lifetime have come about as a result of legislation in the US Houses of Congress - safety, pollution, fuel economy - all forced into existence by government), and this is borderline on-topic for this mailing list. In summary - I agree, buy the vehicle you _need_, not the one you think you need. Refer to my post on serviceability and subjectivity in buying kayaks. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2000 21:18:17 -0300 >From: Fernando Arbarello <uktkayak_at_interar.com.ar> >I personally find HONDA cars even better quality than SUZUKI. The civic is >bigger than the swift so maybe more comfortable. You Americans always >preferred bigger cars so maybe the accord is better option. All of them are >stronger than they look like. Or even better yet the civic's sister car, the Acura Integra. It is hatchback with rear seats that fold down, giving you all sorts of room for gear and easy loading. With Yakima racks I can easily load and unload two kayaks. The best part of the Integra over the Civic? A larger engine. The base LS or GS has a 1.8 liter 140 hp engine while the top of the line (what I have) is one of Honda's little sports cars with 170 hp. I drove from Kansas City to Ross Lake last year loaded with gear and both boats. Cruised at 80 mph. Never had the temperature gauge rise over normal temps that it has unloaded. (Oh, and this was in July). The worst I had was to drop from 5th gear to 4th gear climbing the continental divide. Mileage did drop with the kayaks though. Normally on the highway we can get about 30-31 mpg. With the kayaks it dropped to about 23 mpg in the flat stretches and about 20-21 mpg while climbing mountains. (Later when we went to the BWCA with the canoe we got 26 mpg, so one canoe is better than two kayaks.) That still put us ahead of the trucks and SUVs. :) Mel --== Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ ==-- Share what you know. Learn what you don't. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com> wrote .... ....." The Geo/Swift/Firefly/Whatever versions of the Suzuki car are a "peanut" car in my mind. Not suitable for highway driving and hauling lots of gear. " ..... I absolutely don´t agree with you. I own a 1991 Suzuky Swift 1.6 GLX, and I´m very proud of it. I bought it used 3° hand 3 years ago, with 85000 km rolled by. In these 3 years I´ve added 110000 more. As I also love whitewater I have to drive to the "Andes" mountains for the closest rivers and this is 1000 km away from Buenos Aires, where I live. I go 2 or 3 times a year there. And my last 2 holidays were planned to be in tents, travelling with my two 30kg SHARK ( Nordkapp like ) seakayaks on the roofrack. In each vacation trip I made about 6000 km, with the back seat and trunk completely loaded, including highways, regular roads, mountain stony or dusty roads, sometimes at 4000 m height and even some off-road at all. It never broke up during a trip. I drive at 130 km/hr with the kayaks atop or at 160 km/hr empty what I consider fast enough. But if you like the speed the max-speed is about 195 km/hr and accelerates like hell, even when it is a sedan not-sport version. But I have to recognise anyway that the car is only comfortable for 2 people when travelling this way. I didn´t harm the roof but I´m using an original Suzuki roofrack designed to carry only 30 kg., remember I load it with 60kg. Man, if this is not OVERUSE, it surely is ABUSE ! I personally find HONDA cars even better quality than SUZUKI. The civic is bigger than the swift so maybe more comfortable. You Americans always preferred bigger cars so maybe the accord is better option. All of them are stronger than they look like. Best regards.- Fernando López Arbarello uktkayak_at_interar.com.ar *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 09:18 PM 01/28/2000 -0300, =?Windows-1252?Q?Fernando_L=F3pez_Arbarello?= wrote: >Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com> wrote .... <snip> >I absolutely don´t agree with you. <snip some more> Me Neither! Hi All! Well, I've stayed out of this fray, but I too draw the line at small-car bashing. The Ms. and I have hauled two solo canoes and a couple weeks LUXURY camping supplys all over Colorado with my '84 Subaru 4WD wagon; on road and off, up hill and down, 70MPH on the interstate, and 5MPH over jeep trails in low range. I had a clutch cable break once, and drove 150 miles home without it (poor li'l soobie). 214K miles, and "The Beast" still gets me to work every morning and home at nite. Can't ask for more'n that! My $.02! ByeBye! S. PS I used to have a Suzuki Samurai; a bit underpowered for the highway, but a killer ORV. Smaller is better. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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