Ralph wrote: >1. They have such little hang time (the amount of time they are in > the >air and possibly visible) that they likely only alert someone in > the rare >chance that they are looking your way at the precise few seconds of >flaring. >2. There have been too many cases of failure, even for flares that > have >been carefully wrapped or left in the original packaging. If you are >carrying 3 flares, you can pretty much count on 1 or 2 failing. Nick Gill wrote >don't know about accidental ignition possiblities >re waterproofing - I actually don't know. However, >- One is in a manufacturer's sealed bag. >- at the suggestion of wayne langmaid of ocean planet I placed the > > >other in a condom and knotted it closed. both go into a plastic zip > lock >sample bag Thanks Ralph and Nick, The units I carry have an option of being used for smoke or flares depending which end is struck - I'm not sure if this means that you get both a flare and a smoke signal or whether if one is used you can't use the other? From what Ralph says I suspect that smoke is more useful than flares. I've noticed that keeping the flares in a plastic wrapper can actually exacerbate the moisture problem. If the plastic becomes punctured then moisture tends to get trapped inside the flare bag instead of drying out - this has ruined at least one of my flares. Will try the condom idea and zip lock bag. All the best, PeterO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Will try the condom idea It's probably a good one and Condoms as waterproof containers has a long history. I remember, some 50 years ago, reading in "The Silent World", Cousteau's humorous description of using condoms over regular Rayovac type flashlights for underwater dive lights. They wanted to treat them with talcum powder to preserve them from moisture while stored away on his ship and were trying figure out the best way to do this. Of course his wife with typical female practicality came up with the solution, roll them onto broom handles and powder them and then roll them off and store. :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dave Flory, San Jose, CA. daflory_at_pacbell.net ICQ - 64693644 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Speak softly and study Aikido, then you won't need a big stick. ©2000 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Flory wrote: > > > Will try the condom idea [to keep water away from flares] > > It's probably a good one and Condoms as waterproof containers has a long > history. And a speckled one, also. Pure latex rubber is notoriously susceptible to degradation from a variety of contaminants -- atmospheric ozone (smog has similar stuff in it) being a prime culprit. And, sunlight will degrade latex fairly rapidly. Latex is rubber without the antioxidants and stabilizers usually added to other elastomers to prolong their lifetime. The latex in condoms is missing those ingredients because they often irritate skin, and they often make rubber less pliable. In contrast, the latex seals in drysuits are heavily endorsed with carbon black to promote resistance to UV. The latex in condoms is not so endorsed. Condoms are better than plastic bags for protecting flares, but also in need of replacing periodically. I'd suggest every couple months or so. Another alternative would be *heavy duty* elongated balloons, which usually have some pigment in them -- to promote UV resistance. You'd have to snip off the nozzles on the balloons in order to get the flares inside. And, no, I do not know of a source for heavy duty balloons. Doesn't the NWS use them? Probably just the thing for "when the balloon goes up." [giggle; sorry] -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR chemist *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave wrote, "Pure latex rubber is notoriously susceptible to degradation from a variety of contaminants -- atmospheric ozone (smog has similar stuff in it) being a prime culprit. And, sunlight will degrade latex fairly rapidly." >From practical experience in waterproofing batteries and other equipment during testing EPIRBs at sea and other related, short term testing, I agree strongly with Dave that condoms are definitely not a good long term storage device. They're good for a day or two, max, in even relatively controlled situations. Condoms used to --- and may still --- be included in U.S. Navy aircraft survival kits, listed in the inventory as "water containers". (They also used to be freely dispensed by the ship's Chaplains in the "liberty line" of sailors awaiting the P-boats to carry them ashore, but my guess is that canteens were not the focus of the practice --- and my other guess is that the practice may not be so obvious any more, if it's carried out at all in the "new Navy". To Peter O's comment about double-ended flare/smoke combinations, which I unintentionally deleted: dunno for sure what you have there, Peter, but standard survival systems in the Navy did, and probably still do, contain a combo flare/smoke in a cannister about two inches in diameter and six inches long; one end is a handheld red-orange flare --- not a deployable or parachute system --- and the other is an orange smoke. The smoke is far more visible in bright daylight and the handheld flare is obviously better during the night. (The smoke also gives the SAR aircraft a better local wind direction, which pilots appreciate in setting up approaches.) I'm not familiar with any combo devices which include a shootable flare and a smoke, but that would be neat if that's how they worked. And, yes, you can light both ends simultaneously, but keep then at full arms' length. The tend to be nasty. Better option to any of the small deployable "pencil" flares is the 12 gauge or 25 mm parachute flare. They have historically come with an internatinal orange pistol for launching --- looks like a sidearm from "Toons", but still might make for an uncomfortable boarder crossing inspection! --- and takes up a lot of room; think I just saw a new Orion system for launching 12 gauge flares that is straight, and would be easier to pack in a deck bag, hatch or below deck or in a drybox. These hummers get altitude, hang time, and are ten times brighter than so-called pencil flares. If I were doing a longer crossing or open water work, I'd carry them in a small Pelican-type drybox, and also carry a small ACR "Firefly" strobe light powered by replacable "AA" cell batteries. Very bright, small, light, waterproof, and ACR stands behind them, in or out of warranty, with or without damage. (ACR recently replaced mine when it failed to operate after a pretty good and obvious hit, no que! ! stions asked; they're pricey [maybe $50 to 60 US] but worth every penny if they're ever needed.) And there's always the use of retroreflective tape on the shoulder straps of PFDs, but that's probably another re-tread thread waiting to happen, I guess ... Jack Martin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > And a speckled one, also. Pure latex rubber is notoriously susceptible to > degradation from a variety of contaminants -- atmospheric ozone (smog has > similar stuff in it) being a prime culprit. And, sunlight will degrade > latex > fairly rapidly. Latex is rubber without the antioxidants and stabilizers > usually added to other elastomers to prolong their lifetime. The latex in > condoms is missing those ingredients because they often irritate skin, and > they > often make rubber less pliable. > Last year I purchased new SkyBlazers flares and sealed each in its own condom (topped with a know). Within 2 wks all 3 of the condoms were in shreds. Perhaps the condoms would have lasted longer if I had applied 303. Since then I have sealed my new flares with a friends vaccuum sealer. Since last year there have been no leaks. Debbie Reeves Sandy Hook, NJ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Reeves, Debbie (Debbie)" wrote: > > Last year I purchased new SkyBlazers flares and sealed each in its > own condom (topped with a know). Within 2 wks all 3 of the condoms were in > shreds. Perhaps the condoms would have lasted longer if I had applied 303. > Since then I have sealed my new flares with a friends vaccuum sealer. Since > last year there have been no leaks. Debbie; How hard is it to open the sealed package after? This sounds like the way I would like to go as long as I know I don't need to pull out my knife to get at them when I need them. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I received this comment back channel from a friend and decided my response should probably go to the group: > <Last year I purchased new SkyBlazers flares and sealed each in its own > condom (topped with a know).> > > An interesting and probably best avoided concept for discussion on the > list, Deb. What sort of "know" do we need in this area for > condom-topping, anyway? > KNOT, KNOT, I meant KNOT! Really, *I swear* I have no special, personal know-how about the best topping of a condom (other than the misspelled KNOT)! Debs Who is totally embarrassed from her typo and truly had no intention of causing "X" rated thoughts *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Debbie; How hard is it to open the sealed package after? This sounds like the way I would like to go as long as I know I don't need to pull out my knife to get at them when I need them. Mike >> If you notch the edge of the package beforehand, it should easily tear open when you need it. Chuck Holst not Debbie, and never have been *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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