Hi everyone! I guess this is directed more towards our New York paddlers or other city dwellers: I just finished reading an article in the new Outside magazine about the NY police scuba unit and it contained some really nasty descriptions of New York Water quality in the rivers- a plethora of nasty little bugs and carcinogens etc. Now, I know there is a big difference between paddling on top and mucking about in the bottom goo/fecal sludge, but I'm wondering if anybody takes special pollution precautions? How bad IS the water? Are there certain areas you just don't go, or do you go and then immerse both you and your boat in a sterilization bath before pulling out? I'm not trying to be insulting to NY waters or anything,I've been captivated by Ralph's descriptions of his city paddling...I'm just curious, since we've been talking about risk so much lately...:) Allison *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Allison Corning wrote: > > Hi everyone! > > I guess this is directed more towards our New York paddlers or other city > dwellers: I just finished reading an article in the new Outside magazine > about the NY police scuba unit and it contained some really nasty > descriptions of New York Water quality in the rivers- a plethora of nasty > little bugs and carcinogens etc. Now, I know there is a big difference > between paddling on top and mucking about in the bottom goo/fecal sludge, > but I'm wondering if anybody takes special pollution precautions? How bad IS > the water? The waters are more than clean enough to paddle in most areas of the harbor. People practice rolling and rescues in the waters. And there are nearly a half dozen swimming events held each year under the auspices of the Manhattan Island Foundation (they have a website, I think it is http://www.nycswim.org ). People do not take shots for doing these events whereas at one point in the round-Manhattan swim it was a must. There are several highly polluted areas in Newton Creek and The Gowanus Canal, the first on the Queens/Brooklyn border, the second in Brooklyn. The latter was on a recent PBS show under Lavendar Lake to describe its color because of heavy pollution. But even both these places are getting cleaner especially where they come out into the East River or Buttermilk Channel. For the most part the city's sewers go through several local processing plants that reduce pollution levels. The trouble in New York is that we don't have separate storm sewers and household/commercial discharge sewers. The plants can handle the volume of gray water coming from toilets and other commercial and household discharge; they can give this kind of discharge the necessary steps and time to clean it up. But if we have significant rain, then the gray water may be discharged into the river before getting the full, optimum treatment. So one doesn't plan to do rolling or rescue practice in the vicinity of those discharges after a rain. We give it 24 hour or so. The waters here are blessed by strong currents that come in from the Atlantic and Long Island Sound. The figures I read are that the waters would be totally flushed clean their entire depth in 7 days if there was no new discharges into the harbor. In addition there is quite a volume of fresh water coming down the Hudson which is a fairly wide and poweful river. And there are many other fresh water sources emptying into our waters. Empirically, I look at myself and other paddlers who have been paddling here for 10 years or more. None of us have health problems or skin sores or rashes other than those you can get from salt water. BTW, I would never drink the water...it is largely salt water. And I don't get panicky if I happen to get some in my mouth. None of this is to minimize the dire measurements of water quality you see and hear about. I am certain that at great depths the levels talked about are true. But so are air readings in a busy city. ralph diaz -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
ralph diaz wrote: > Empirically, I look at myself and other paddlers who have been paddling > here for 10 years or more. None of us have health problems or skin > sores or rashes other than those you can get from salt water. BTW, I > would never drink the water...it is largely salt water. And I don't get > panicky if I happen to get some in my mouth. They must have really cleaned up the Hudson compared to when I sailed up it in 1977 (Norfolk to Montreal returning a boat whose owner wintered on it in the Bahamas). Back then I kept my mouth clamped shut against the spray and felt like I was sailing through a sewer. The smell was unbelievable. When we tied up at the 79th St boat basin, there was a dead pig floating by one of the docks. Some folks we knew there told their kids that if they touched the dock or piers, they had to wash their hands. The ultimate downside was that they were renovating the washrooms of the boat basin and we couldn't shower. I ended up taking a bath in a sink in a restaurant on Broadway. Conditions improved considerably once we sailed about a half day further up the Hudson. When I first read about you folks kayaking there, I cringed. I'm glad for you that things are better! Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kenneth Cooperstein wrote: > > Ralph Diaz wrote: > <The waters here are blessed by strong currents that come in from the Atlantic and Long Island Sound.> > > I believe that there is a place of zero current beween the Whitestone and Throggs Neck bridges past which no significant eastern L.I. Sound water flows. So the only "new" water that comes into NY Harbor is from the lower bay and the Hudson. > > Ken Cooperstein You are absolutely right. The waters from Long Island Sound peter out at about where you cite. The waters coming in from the Atlantic also peter out there. Aside from some minute mixing in that area of convergence, water from Long Island Sound would never penetrate into the harbor which is well to the south. For those not familiar with the area, Long Island is about 100 miles long thrusting eastward into the Atlantic. Long Island Sound separates Long Island from the New England coastline. Water comes into Long Island Sound from the Atlantic on the flood tide and goes westward all the way to the area of the Bronx, the upper part of the East River mentioned by Ken (which is really not a river but an estuary or tidal strait). Meanwhile, flood tide water also enters the city area from the south coming in directly through what is called the Lower Bay and into the Upper Bay, aka New York Harbor. That Atlantic water then floods up the East River to its meeting with the water from Long Island Sound. Up until 15,000-18,000 years ago before I started paddling, this was not the case. Long Island Sound was a long large lake cut off from the Atlantic by a glacial moraine at its eastern end. New York Harbor also had a glacial moraine separating it from the Atlantic. With rising sea levels both moraines were breached by the ocean. The Hudson River became a "drowned" river so that now the ocean currents on the flood are felt pretty much all the way up to Albany, some 150 miles from the city. ralph -- ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024 Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com "Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag." ----------------------------------------------------------------------- *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
--(2/29/00 9:36 PM) Michael Daly wrote: >They must have really cleaned up the Hudson compared to when I sailed >up it in 1977 (Norfolk to Montreal returning a boat whose owner >wintered on it in the Bahamas). Back then I kept my mouth clamped >shut against the spray and felt like I was sailing through a sewer. The >smell was unbelievable. When we tied up at the 79th St boat basin, there >was a dead pig floating by one of the docks. Some folks we knew there >told their kids that if they touched the dock or piers, they had to wash >their >hands. The ultimate downside was that they were renovating the washrooms >of the boat basin and we couldn't shower. I ended up taking a bath in a sink >in a restaurant on Broadway. Conditions improved considerably once we >sailed about a half day further up the Hudson. > >When I first read about you folks kayaking there, I cringed. I'm glad for >you >that things are better! You'd be amazed. About 4 years ago I was doing some volunteer work for the Sloop Clearwater. One of the boat's programs involves taking groups of schoolkids out into NY Harbor, throwing a net over the side for a few minutes of trawling and putting the catch into aquariums for the kids to look at. Sailing from the Statue of Liberty toward Manhattan, we came up with lots of fish, including bass, seahorses (!) and robin fish. When I was a child however, we lived near the 79th St. Boat Basin (from 1969-77), so I remember the days of the floating dead pigs! PS. The Norfolk to Montreal trip must have been great--especially since you were being paid to sail someone else's boat! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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