If that's the case I would never buy a Werner product. Who are they to decide what my capabilities are! That's ABSURD!! -Hi Bob and All, Werner will not sell ferrule kits. The reason is that many people are not capable or willing to do a good job and the result is paddles that bear the Werner name but don't reflect their standards of quality. I should mention that I am not a Werner employee but that I do know them pretty well and I am working on a new website for them at this moment. You can look forward to a whole new look for Werner on the web in a couple of weeks. Cheers, -- Rob Cookson 3 Hats Design INTERNET PRINT ILLUSTRATION 5201 15 Ave NW Suite 220 Seattle, WA 98107 206.851.8202 direct line 206.784.1641 main office phone 206.784.2231 main office fax mailto:rob_at_3hats.com http://www.3hats.com > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Bob Denton > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 9:36 AM > To: 'LedJube_at_aol.com'; 'PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net' > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] RE: Werner Paddles > > > It's actually very easy to cut down a 2 piece. Most manufacturers > will sell > you a kit for +- $20. > > cya > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of > LedJube_at_aol.com > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 11:34 AM > To: PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] RE: Werner Paddles > > > In a message dated 3/9/00 3:13:43 PM, CHUCK_at_multitech.com writes: > > << Years ago at a symposium a rep from Werner Paddles recommended > spraying a > > little silicone spray in the joint rather than using oil or a spray like > > WD-40. Like Rob, he pointed out that oil-based sprays can actually attract > > grit, which over time can abrade and loosen the joint. >> > > Chuck, sorry to have misspelled your last name in an earlier post. > > I heard the same advice and have used silicone religiously every time > the > ferrule starts to get too sticky. I bought a can, used it once to > treat all > five paddles, then lost the can. Two years later, I'm still too > cheap to buy > > a new can, I know I'll find it someday. The paddles have worked without a > hitch for two years with that one application. > > I spoke with the Werner factory the other day. I have two > paddles that I > > bought early in my education that are too long for me. I tried to > sell them > but couldn't bear to sell brand new Werner paddles at a loss of $50 per > paddle. The factory said they can cut them down for less than $40 per > paddle, > and incredible deal if you like me bought a great, but too long, > paddle from > > a less than knowledgeable sales person. I knew they made great > paddles but > I > was surprised at how reasonable their service work is priced. > > A happy Werner paddle owner > Jed > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the > author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the > author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Bob and all, > If that's the case I would never buy a Werner product. Who are they to > decide what my capabilities are! That's ABSURD!! Well, that's one way to look at it. But call valley and see if they will sell you a hull and deck so you can assemble your own boat. Or call the maker of your car and see if you can get it in kit form. What it is about is controlling the image of their product. There is of course no reason why you can't devise a ferrule kit of your own. Cheers, -- Rob Cookson "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I did call Valley and order a day hatch kit and believe it or not, I was never questioned about my ability to install it. I didn't have to promise that I would keep the boat looking factory new when I bought the boat either! And I also removed the Valley seat (without telling them!) Doesn't it affect the image of their product when I drop in a foam seat? We're not even talking about constructing a new paddle from Werner parts, but making a simple length adjustment! Let's get real. Werner takes the anal-retentive cake in my book. Sounds like we're talking the Composite Nazis here? This is very interesting because I was looking at the Werner carbons this weekend... That's made that decision real easy... I was able to purchase my Lendal carbon crank shaft paddle in parts and assemble it myself to exactly my specs. I was able to tape the joint and play with different lengths and feather angles before I decided to make a permanent hole in the shaft. cya PS: I also cut the tags off my furniture. Hi Bob and all, > If that's the case I would never buy a Werner product. Who are they to > decide what my capabilities are! That's ABSURD!! Well, that's one way to look at it. But call valley and see if they will sell you a hull and deck so you can assemble your own boat. Or call the maker of your car and see if you can get it in kit form. What it is about is controlling the image of their product. There is of course no reason why you can't devise a ferrule kit of your own. Cheers, -- Rob Cookson "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Bob and all, That's the one of the beautiful things about America, freedom of choice. I definately think we should all spend our money with companies whose philosophies match our own. Enjoy your new paddle, whatever it may be. -- Rob Cookson "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Bob Denton > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 10:35 AM > To: 'Rob Cookson'; 'Paddlewise (E-mail)' > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] FW: RE: Werner Paddles > > > I did call Valley and order a day hatch kit and believe it or not, I was > never questioned about my ability to install it. I didn't have to promise > that I would keep the boat looking factory new when I bought the boat > either! And I also removed the Valley seat (without telling them!) Doesn't > it affect the image of their product when I drop in a foam seat? > > We're not even talking about constructing a new paddle from Werner parts, > but making a simple length adjustment! Let's get real. Werner takes the > anal-retentive cake in my book. Sounds like we're talking the Composite > Nazis here? > > This is very interesting because I was looking at the Werner carbons this > weekend... That's made that decision real easy... > > I was able to purchase my Lendal carbon crank shaft paddle in parts and > assemble it myself to exactly my specs. I was able to tape the joint and > play with different lengths and feather angles before I decided to make a > permanent hole in the shaft. > > cya > > PS: I also cut the tags off my furniture. > > Hi Bob and all, > > > If that's the case I would never buy a Werner product. Who are they to > > decide what my capabilities are! That's ABSURD!! > > Well, that's one way to look at it. But call valley and see if they will > sell you a hull and deck so you can assemble your own boat. Or call the > maker of your car and see if you can get it in kit form. > > What it is about is controlling the image of their product. > > There is of course no reason why you can't devise a ferrule kit > of your own. > > Cheers, > > -- > Rob Cookson > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" > Benjamin Franklin > > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the > author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the > author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Without commenting directly on whether or not Werner will or should sell parts/kits, I'd just like to plug my favorite paddle: Mitchell. They're almost indestructible, they're beautifully made, and I no longer use anything else. (No, I don't work there, just a very happy customer.) See www.mitchellpaddles.com for specifics. ---Rsk Rich Kulawiec rsk_at_gsp.org *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
That's the great thing about the internet and this list! We're able to benefit from other people's mistakes. cya -----Original Message----- From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Rob Cookson Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 1:41 PM To: 'Paddlewise (E-mail)' Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] FW: RE: Werner Paddles Hi Bob and all, That's the one of the beautiful things about America, freedom of choice. I definately think we should all spend our money with companies whose philosophies match our own. Enjoy your new paddle, whatever it may be. -- Rob Cookson "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" Benjamin Franklin > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Bob Denton > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 10:35 AM > To: 'Rob Cookson'; 'Paddlewise (E-mail)' > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] FW: RE: Werner Paddles > > > I did call Valley and order a day hatch kit and believe it or not, I was > never questioned about my ability to install it. I didn't have to promise > that I would keep the boat looking factory new when I bought the boat > either! And I also removed the Valley seat (without telling them!) Doesn't > it affect the image of their product when I drop in a foam seat? > > We're not even talking about constructing a new paddle from Werner parts, > but making a simple length adjustment! Let's get real. Werner takes the > anal-retentive cake in my book. Sounds like we're talking the Composite > Nazis here? > > This is very interesting because I was looking at the Werner carbons this > weekend... That's made that decision real easy... > > I was able to purchase my Lendal carbon crank shaft paddle in parts and > assemble it myself to exactly my specs. I was able to tape the joint and > play with different lengths and feather angles before I decided to make a > permanent hole in the shaft. > > cya > > PS: I also cut the tags off my furniture. > > Hi Bob and all, > > > If that's the case I would never buy a Werner product. Who are they to > > decide what my capabilities are! That's ABSURD!! > > Well, that's one way to look at it. But call valley and see if they will > sell you a hull and deck so you can assemble your own boat. Or call the > maker of your car and see if you can get it in kit form. > > What it is about is controlling the image of their product. > > There is of course no reason why you can't devise a ferrule kit > of your own. > > Cheers, > > -- > Rob Cookson > "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary > safety deserve neither liberty nor safety" > Benjamin Franklin > > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the > author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* > ****************************************************************** > ********* > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the > author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ****************************************************************** > ********* *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>From: "Rob Cookson" <rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com> >Hi Bob and all, > > > If that's the case I would never buy a Werner product. Who are they to > > decide what my capabilities are! That's ABSURD!! > >Well, that's one way to look at it. But call valley and see if they will >sell you a hull and deck so you can assemble your own boat. Or call the >maker of your car and see if you can get it in kit form. > >What it is about is controlling the image of their product. > >There is of course no reason why you can't devise a ferrule kit of your >own. > >Cheers, > >-- >Rob Cookson Many manufacturers try to control how their product is used and modified, knowing public perception is at stake. Gore-Tex, for instance, will only laminate fabric for garment makers who meet its particular manufacturing standards, use Gore-approved machines and tape methods for sealing the seams, and submit garment samples for Gore's testing and approval before starting production runs. Gore does not knowingly supply rolls of Gore-Tex laminated fabric to fabric stores(though at least one retail fabric store seems to be able to source it, perhaps from factory bankruptcies?); Gore's position is they have no control over how or if home sewers would seal the seams of home-made garments, and might blame the fabric rather than their handiwork for any problems. The great thing about a free market is that if you feel a manufacturer is patronizing you or exercising unreasonable control, you can take your business elsewhere! Philip Torrens N49°16' W123°06' *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi All, Just to clarify the quoting. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > [mailto:owner-paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net]On Behalf Of Philip Torrens > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 11:46 AM > To: rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com; PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] FW: RE: Werner Paddles > > > >From: "Rob Cookson" <rob_cookson_at_mindspring.com> > > >Hi Bob and all, > > >>>Bob denton wrote: > > > If that's the case I would never buy a Werner product. Who are they to > > > decide what my capabilities are! That's ABSURD!! > > > >Well, that's one way to look at it. But call valley and see if they will > >sell you a hull and deck so you can assemble your own boat. Or call the > >maker of your car and see if you can get it in kit form. > > > >What it is about is controlling the image of their product. > > > >There is of course no reason why you can't devise a ferrule kit of your > >own. > > > >Cheers, > > > >-- > >Rob Cookson > The great thing about a free market is that if you feel a manufacturer is > patronizing you or exercising unreasonable control, you can take your > business elsewhere! > > Philip Torrens > N49°16' W123°06' I agree with you totally. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just called Werner and confirmed that they do not supply the ferrule (inside barrel) because they stated that there is too much variation in the inside diameter of the shaft and the OD of the ferrule and consequently, they have to machine each ferrule for the specific shaft. This makes sense in terms of the tolerances I've seen on their paddles. On the other hand, I've modified and installed ferrules on both Swift and Lendal paddles and it hasn't been an issue. Lendal (GRO) did say that if the ferrule they supplied didn't fit, return it and they would replace it with a slightly smaller or larger one. The fit was perfect. Hmmmmmmm..... cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
There you have it. Better information straight from the source. I had forgotten about the different diameter aspect. -- Rob Cookson > -----Original Message----- > From: Bob Denton [mailto:BDenton_at_aquagulf.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 12:31 PM > To: 'Rob Cookson'; 'PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net' > Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] FW: RE: Werner Paddles > > > I just called Werner and confirmed that they do not supply the ferrule > (inside barrel) because they stated that there is too much > variation in the > inside diameter of the shaft and the OD of the ferrule and consequently, > they have to machine each ferrule for the specific shaft. > > This makes sense in terms of the tolerances I've seen on their paddles. On > the other hand, I've modified and installed ferrules on both Swift and > Lendal paddles and it hasn't been an issue. Lendal (GRO) did say that if > the ferrule they supplied didn't fit, return it and they would replace it > with a slightly smaller or larger one. The fit was perfect. > > Hmmmmmmm..... > > cya *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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