I don't know if this suggestion will help but it works here for the Everglades National Park. For many years I would get so frustrated that we could not reserve a trip by phone days in advance. I had to rush over to the ranger station 24 hours in advance of trip to get a site, most of which were taken at high season so you had to be flexible. I however, have never not gotten a site and have always been able to do trips on the spur of the moment without worry of an outfitter or group taking over. We do however, share sites with other paddlers and unfortunately motorboaters so it is NOT a private experience but at least you get to be out there every weekend if you wanted. This issue about mixed user (paddle/motor) camping on islands I would like to bring to the parks attention in near future so let me know how your success rate was to get the park to listen to your suggestions. Unhappy the season is soon coming to an end :-( *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>> Warning: this post may be completely uninteresting unless you are planning trips to the Apostle Islands this year... Some friends called my attention to the Trek and Trail catalog for this year. They are the biggest outfitter/guide service in the Apostle Islands, and have long been one of the main kayak users of the islands. This year however, they seem to have taken a saturation approach to booking their trips. They have 4 overnight trips scheduled weekly Memorial Day through Labor Day, 3 of them weekend trips with Friday/Saturday night stays mainly on Sand and Oak Islands. In the case of Sand, they have two camping sites scheduled every Saturday night. This leaves only two small sites on the island for every other outfitter, club, or, god help them, individual user. In addition, they have weekly multi-day trips scheduled to the outer islands now, including Michigan and Outer Island. Most of the outer Islands have only one campsite (Michigan, Outer, Cat, Ironwood, Devil's), so with one party camping there these islands are "closed". Last year for the first time, our club had real trouble finding spots to camp on the islands, although we usually don't schedule our trips far in advance, and it looks even worse for this year. Weekend space on any of the islands is now extremely hard to find, with even "wilderness" camping permits being scarce (possibly because non-guided groups/individuals are taking this option when they can't get anything else). I should point out that Trek and Trail are the biggest outfitter in the Apostles, but by no means the only one. I guess I am a wee bit frusrated at the high proportion of permits/sites issued to outfitters, and am wondering whether other Apostles' paddlers feel the same way. Also wondering whether it is time to talk to the Park Service about the problem... Sarah Ohmann >> I'm frustrated by this, too. Because the outfitters camp on the Park Service reservation phone the first day group permits become available, Andy Knapp has for the last few years had trouble reserving the group site for the traditional Stockton Island Rendezvous. Up till a couple of years ago, it was possible to reserve as late as April a group site on Sand Island for both Saturday and Sunday of Memorial Day weekend. This year, the Sand Island sites were already booked for Saturday when I called in February. I was able to book a site for Sunday, but we will have to camp somewhere on the mainland Saturday night. It is definitely time to talk to the Park Service. For my part, I will propose that non-commercial groups and individuals be given preference in the reservation system. One way to do this would be to allow them to make reservations earlier than the commercial outfitters, in the case of group sites, by two to four weeks; in the case of individual sites, by five to seven days. Though this would not help the spontaneous paddler, I think it would make the situation more equitable than it is now. As Wes Boyd pointed out, I think we are likely to find the Park Service personnel sympathetic if approached in a non-antagonistic manner. For example, I recently complained to the Minnesota Department of Natural Resources about the difficulties nonresident paddlers have in obtaining the required license for their watercraft, especially with license bureaus being closed on weekends. The reply I received was that the personnel in the license bureau were equally frustrated with the situation, and that they were forwarding my e-mail both to their own commissioners and to an office in the legislature. I subsequently received an e-mail from the office stating that they are going to research the problem. The legislative session is winding down for this year, but with a little effort, I hope it will be easier for nonresidents to paddle in Minnesota in a year or two. I think that often bureaucrats need the support of citizens to make changes, and that citizens also need the support of the bureacrats. It is much easier to accomplish a goal when they work together. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>At 9:55 AM -0600 3/15/00, Chuck Holst wrote: >It is definitely time to talk to the Park Service. [SNIP] Perhaps a letter campaign from all club members and individuals in the area. I think we can make the case that what this is doing is closing off the islands to kayakers in that guided tours generally cater to first time and beginner paddlers leaving the rest of us SOL. I'm know that more experienced paddlers also go guided, but I think that for the most part it's the newbies. And don't get me wrong, guided trips are a great way to teach safe paddling and camping. I think that many of those new to paddling are also new to camping out as well. (not to mention those guided tours are expensive!) How have other paddling communities dealt with this? I can imagine this is a big problem out west. I guess you know your sport is getting popular when you no longer recognize almost every car with a rack and saddles. Not to mention that the cars (SUV's) with racks or boats on them seem to be getting much nicer. Anyone else noticing that? Thinkin' about economics and driving a crappy old Honda... -Patrick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Chuck Holst wrote: Sarah wrote: > >Last year for the first time, our club had real trouble finding spots to > >camp on the islands, although we usually don't schedule our trips far in > >advance, [snip] > I'm frustrated by this, too. Because the outfitters camp on the Park > Service reservation phone the first day group permits become available, > Andy Knapp has for the last few years had trouble reserving the group site > for the traditional Stockton Island Rendezvous. Up till a couple of years > ago, it was possible to reserve as late as April a group site on Sand > Island for both Saturday and Sunday of Memorial Day weekend. This year, the > Sand Island sites were already booked for Saturday when I called in > February. I was able to book a site for Sunday, but we will have to camp > somewhere on the mainland Saturday night. > > It is definitely time to talk to the Park Service. For my part, I will > propose that non-commercial groups and individuals be given preference in > the reservation system. One way to do this would be to allow them to make > reservations earlier than the commercial outfitters, in the case of group > sites, by two to four weeks; in the case of individual sites, by five to > seven days. Though this would not help the spontaneous paddler, I think it > would make the situation more equitable than it is now. Probably the interests of the commercial outfitters will not be well-served by that proposal, Chuck. They need firm dates well in advance so they can advertise their trips and set up guides, etc. It might be more workable to allocate half the slots for commercial groups and half for non-commercial groups and run the reservation phone-in system for each in parallel (same phone number to call; two lists). That way, each interest group has good access in advance. This is the system which now is used on Gwaii Haanas, in the Queen Charlottes. Previous to this year, GH had a reservation system in which outfitters took their slice of the pie first, and on many prime dates, they took the whole pie! We got snuffed in '99, but were easily able to make reservations for '00 in February. To see a description of how Parks Canada does it, hit: http://fas.sfu.ca/parkscan/gwaii/ and search for the info packet. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:11 PDT