I've had a fascinating couple of years on Paddlewise now - always interesting, always informative. Topics covered have been extensive and usually fleshed-out to the max. Even some of the more sterile considerations discussed, such as narrow boats vs wide or plastic vs folding, have proved informative when segments of us polarize and fling our particular predilections for journeying on the sea. I've found our often thoroughly Western predisposition toward measuring, quantifying, evaluating every angle, and ultimately casting individual or group judgement upon the methods and practices of others, both annoying at times, but nonetheless interesting. I can see recently from the discussion on risk that it is easy to sway oneself one way or the other toward safety or adventure. Finding a balance can be like holding on to the to horns of a bull. I just hope those who try to formulate a balance in their minds rather than in reality don't methodize adventure out of existence completely. >From my exposure to club and association sea-proficiency training politics, I've found that some organizations and/or education proponents often are guilty of an obsession with technique. I don't find this on Paddlewise. I see on this list for the most part, an approach toward safety management (both for the individual paddler with their friends, and those who teach it to new sea kayakers) that emphasizes an evaluation and teaching strategy that involves more intuition and subjective preponderance with respect to the affective and cognitive learning domains, while still relegating hard skills its due importance. When we deal with the issue of experience, both in the sense of what it means and how does one evaluate it, we all know that experience is difficult to quantify as is leadership and judgement difficult to define or even teach. I do know that if one is to find mastery in our sport, one needs to involve themselves in a modicum of structured exercises with some tutelage and practice with a range of skills to the point that there occurs a transcendence beyond mere technique and equipment. This may take a good five years. Once a degree of mastery is achieved, the individual is not precluded from the possibility of human error or error due to some unknown element at work. I have difficulty making my peers understand this notion. Mastery will, however, usually provide a more fully-conscious understanding on the part of the paddler who journeys through the ocean/coastal environment. This can be in a Nordcapp, Klepper, or cheap SOT. The individual's achievements are always special and unique, no matter the level of one's skills for that matter. Perhaps one of the greatest achievements of an experienced sea kayaker is something we all need to be striving for - a thorough familiarity with the sea itself. BC'in Ya Doug Lloyd *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 03/02/2000 4:38:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, dlloyd_at_telus.net writes: << Mastery will, however, usually provide a more fully-conscious understanding on the part of the paddler who journeys through the ocean/coastal environment. This can be in a Nordcapp, Klepper, or cheap SOT. >> Hrrmph! A plastic with rudder is about $1,000. Cheaper, perhaps, but CHEAP is relative to one's income. Did I beat Duane? I'm sure he'll be jumping into the pro-plastic fray. Sandy Kramer who also owns Seda's deluxe glass Gypsy *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks Sandy for posting that, I too got a bit uncomfortable with my sot being referred to as cheap. I spent $1200 for mine with rudder and hatch options. That is not cheap for a plastic boat of any kind. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Vivian Oliva wrote: > Thanks Sandy for posting that, I too got a bit uncomfortable with my sot > being referred to as cheap. I spent $1200 for mine with rudder and hatch > options. That is not cheap for a plastic boat of any kind. > > I think he was trying to show the extremes. I did not take it that he was trying to say that all sit on tops are cheap, but the cheapest *still seaworthy* kayaks are the cheap plastic sit on tops. I say still seaworthy because the cheaper recreational kayaks (in my opinion) are not safe for anything but the most benign conditions. Besides, at half the price of my Caribou and one third the price of a kevlar Extreme well outfitted, your $1200 dollar sit on top is "cheap." (kind of makes me jealous, perhaps I am paying way too much for my kayaks!) :-) Cheap here refers to price, not quality. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug, you have written so many thoughts here, and there are so many adjectives (all positive, from my POV) that can be applied to them. But the absolute gem I quote below just took my breath away. >The individual's achievements are always special and unique, >no matter the level of one's skills.... The joy of being on the water, of being outside, and all the rest are part of this passion for kayaking, but that sense of individual achievement in the context of paddling is the core! *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
"Cheap, inexpensive, quality..........." How about a value equation?: Cost of boat divided by hours on water Lowest number equals highest value. Doesn't matter what it's made of or who made it or where you use it. The longer you keep your boat and the more you use it, the more it's value (to you) increases. Bob ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael R Noyes" <mnoyes_at_gsinet.net> To: <paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2000 9:24 AM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Misc. Thoughts > Vivian Oliva wrote: > > Besides, at half the price of my Caribou and one third the price of a kevlar > Extreme well outfitted, your $1200 dollar sit on top is "cheap." (kind of makes > me jealous, perhaps I am paying way too much for my kayaks!) :-) Cheap here > refers to price, not quality. > > Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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