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From: alan h gurevich <71145.677_at_compuserve.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Carrying Flares
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 13:20:15 -0500
While I know this won't be popular, it's quite illegal to carry flares and
a few other items paddlers can't live without, on commercial aircraft.  It
doesn't matter what the ticket counter clerk accepts - it's against ICAO
(the UN aviation organization) and FAA rules to carry incendiary devices
unless they're declared, rendered "safe", packed in a VERY specific manner,
and the container (in this case you r luggage) is labelled properly.

Even this is no guarantee it'll go as the Captain must be notified of all
dangerous goods on board (which he won't be if you haven't filled out
paperwork on it), and accept them which many passenger carrying Captains
won't do (rightly so).

The other items, which I wish weren't so, include stoves that've been used,
no matter how well you think you've cleaned them (I don't agree with this
one, but I don't make the rules), fuel bottles even if empty (same rule as
stoves, and I also don't agree IF they've been properly cleaned - but how
many of us know how to do that or would, beyond the "sniff" test?), smoke
generators and, for checked luggage any kind of matches/lighters (you can
put them in carry-on's I think).

 If you think just one little flare, which must be "safed" as you've been
paddling with it and not had a problem, would be okay, consider what
happens when this (possibly past its expiration date) flare, that's likely
spent part of the last year or two soaked in saltwater and exposed to the
sun, decides it's its day to shine - think ValueJet DC-9 in the Everglades.

Sorry to be such a wet blamket.

Alan Gurevich

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From: Vivian Oliva <snook_at_gate.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Carrying Flares and Stoves
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 14:15:50 -0500
> The other items, which I wish weren't so, include stoves that've been
used,
> no matter how well you think you've cleaned them (I don't agree with this
> one, but I don't make the rules), fuel bottles even if empty (same rule as
> stoves, and I also don't agree IF they've been properly cleaned - but how
> many of us know how to do that or would, beyond the "sniff" test>

On a recent trip to the Boundary Waters I called ahead to the airlines about
my stove and fuel bottle.  American Airlines stated that my stove which is
an alcohol burning stove (Trangia) and fuel bottle if cleaned up well, would
be admitted because the fuel used (denatured alcohol) is not considered
volatile.  I did not argue with them and took the stove and fuel bottle with
me.  The flares were not accepted at all.




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From: CA Kayaker <cakayak_at_mindspring.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Flares In A Cargo Hold Can Result in a Catastrophy
Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2000 12:25:47 -0800
Federal Express and UPS have both been fined for accepting "Hazardous 
Material" for air shipment that were not labeled properly and should have 
been sent ground.  Flares are shippable in the US via Ground and not by air 
in most cases that I am aware of.  Flares within a pressurized environment 
in a commercial aircraft could result in a serious situation for all of 
those on board.  Please don't take flares with you.  Buy them when you get 
there.  The life you save could be your own!!!!  The Value Jet crash in the 
Everglades that Alan references below is an excellent example of equipment 
carried as part of an aircraft's safety equipment that was placed in the 
cargo hold and not packed properly for shipment and misrepresented on the 
cargo manifest.  The passengers and crew died because of that.

With regards to stoves that have been cleaned.  An aircraft is pressurized 
(including the cargo hold), but still result in pressures much lower than 
that found on the ground.  Residual combustible liquids can easily vaporize 
at these pressures resulting in a highly flammable gas that is looking for 
a way out of the container as pressure on the outside is lower than that on 
the inside.  In other words:  A bomb looking for a place to go off.  Have 
you ever had shampoo or perfume fill your suitcase during a flight?  It 
would actually be safer to have the container full of combustible liquid, 
but that really isn't an acceptable alternative either, lest it leak.  It 
would not provide room for a gas to form, but most containers are not 
designed to handle the pressure changes (like your ears are).

At 01:20 PM 3/3/2000 -0500, you wrote:
>While I know this won't be popular, it's quite illegal to carry flares and
>a few other items paddlers can't live without, on commercial aircraft.  It
>doesn't matter what the ticket counter clerk accepts - it's against ICAO
>(the UN aviation organization) and FAA rules to carry incendiary devices
>unless they're declared, rendered "safe", packed in a VERY specific manner,
>and the container (in this case you r luggage) is labelled properly.
>
>Even this is no guarantee it'll go as the Captain must be notified of all
>dangerous goods on board (which he won't be if you haven't filled out
>paperwork on it), and accept them which many passenger carrying Captains
>won't do (rightly so).
>
>The other items, which I wish weren't so, include stoves that've been used,
>no matter how well you think you've cleaned them (I don't agree with this
>one, but I don't make the rules), fuel bottles even if empty (same rule as
>stoves, and I also don't agree IF they've been properly cleaned - but how
>many of us know how to do that or would, beyond the "sniff" test?), smoke
>generators and, for checked luggage any kind of matches/lighters (you can
>put them in carry-on's I think).
>
>  If you think just one little flare, which must be "safed" as you've been
>paddling with it and not had a problem, would be okay, consider what
>happens when this (possibly past its expiration date) flare, that's likely
>spent part of the last year or two soaked in saltwater and exposed to the
>sun, decides it's its day to shine - think ValueJet DC-9 in the Everglades.
>
>Sorry to be such a wet blamket.
>
>Alan Gurevich
>
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>to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
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From: <Outfit3029_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Flares In A Cargo Hold Can Result in a Catastrophy
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2000 16:27:22 EST
In a message dated 3/3/00 8:44:08 PM !!!First Boot!!!, cakayak_at_mindspring.com 
writes:

<< Federal Express and UPS have both been fined for accepting "Hazardous 
 Material" for air shipment that were not labeled properly and should have 
 been sent ground. >>

 I was an UPS driver and I have been chewed out by customers for not 
accepting air packages that were shipped in boxes that were marked as 
hazardous materials.  Even if the box is brand new but has been preprinted 
with a hazardous material label it is not allowed on aircraft.
 I know an individual that was flying to Europe for a cycling trip.  They 
purchased a new MSR Whisperlite stove for the occasion.  The airlines ticket 
clerk would not allow the stove aboard the plane, as I mentioned, it was 
brand new.  My guess would be that the clerk got a new stove out of the deal.
 Bruce McCutcheon
  WEO
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