I put a lot of folks in kayaks from a dock while demoing kayaks. It is difficult for them to use the paddle like they were taught because the dock is of fixed height and the lake level is varied for different seasons. What I do and try to show them what to do is to place both feet in the center of the cockpit in front of the seat, place one hand on the dock and the other at the very center of the rear of the coaming. With feet and hands centered the kayak doesn't tip and they can swing their butt over and into the seat (or with a cockpit that is too short they can put there hand further back on the center of the deck and slide their feet forward until they can drop their butt into the seat). The hardest part about this is trying to keep them from moving their hand off center, since this is the key to not tipping the kayak. I usually have one hand on the decklines so I can lift to keep them from tipping one way and can push down with the same hand to keep them from tipping the other so try as they might I haven't lost one yet. The greatest danger to graphite paddles (at least after unfeathered ones in the surf) is a point load. The shaft wall is thin and pressing it very hard into an edge that might deform it at one point will snap it at that point. I once broke an early graphite shafted paddle by attempting to sprint a heavily loaded Khatsalano (with 10 gallons of water aboard--Baja) to catch and surf the steep following seas. Actually it was the first hard stroke I took and I loaded up the paddle just as the next wave caught the blade from behind. Sounded like a firecracker went off and there was a puff of black dust. It broke at the stress riser where the ovalled shaft became round again out near the blade. Luckily I didn't capsize and my partner had the spare nearby. For David Seng--It was the original ultralight "Skypole" shaft Lightning. They are stronger now. This may also have been a weakened paddle because it was made from two other broken shafts that we had Hank make into a two piece to test the feasibility of making a two piece paddle in ultralight graphite (which hadn't been done before). We had used it as a demo for a few years before I needed a two piece paddle to take on the plane to Baja. While it didn't break at the joint, Lightning now uses a shaft that is thicker at the joint and a little huskier elsewhere on the shaft as well but it is not quite as light as that 1# 6oz. two piece I broke. Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I went to the mentioned site and here is the quote from the 1 star test: "The paddle must remain within reach or can be used to assist in embarking". I would interpret this as saying the paddle may be used for support during entry (and exit). Or if one is nimble the paddle may be held in any manner while entering the kayak. What is most important, however, is the enter and exit the kayak from the correct side, which differs depending on which side of the pond one resides. I will leave it to others more knowledgeable in deciphering such intricacies of paddling to elaborate, but I always enter from the curb side. sid (Embedded image moved MJAkayaker_at_aol.com to file: 04/20/2000 03:01 PM pic26151.pcx) To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net cc: (bcc: Sidney Stone/AMS/AMSINC) Subject: [Paddlewise] BCU kayak entry & exit I was looking at the BCU training/testing requirements for 1 and 2 star certification and saw something confusing. One of the first items that the student needed to demonstrate was getting in and out of the kayak without using a paddle. I think it said something else like "paddle must be kept nearby within reach". I have always used a paddle across the back deck for extra support when getting in and out of the kayak. Is there something wrong with using the paddle (ie I should never be doing this) or is this a test to master and demonstrate balance, (ie it is good to learn but it is not necessarily the way you always do it) or is there some other reason (such as I completely misunderstood what was being said). Rest of the descriptions made very good sense and gave my some good ideas for things to practice. I was reading from the selections at http://www.bcu.org.uk/Coaching/pdfdocs.htm. Hope some of you BCU coaches can enlighten me. Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** [demime 0.92b removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream which had a name of pic26151.pcx] *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I read both the 1 star and 2 star tests, but the "with no aid" from the paddle requirement is only in the 2 star test both in the launching and disembarking section. Sorry for the confusion. I still would like more comments if you have them. Mark J. Arnold MJAkayaker_at_aol.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
This thread perked my interest as one of my pet peeves, really, is the number of people who don't learn to use a paddle as a brace for getting in and out of a boat. I can't tell you how many people I"ve seen flip the wrong way, fall out, stand in the boat and fall over...it just goes on and on. This has happened on social paddles and others.. One whitewater school didn't teach it and I came in as an instructor on day three, first river day. One poor fellow kept swimming, then fell in every time he tried to get back in, getting colder by the minute. He wouldn't listen to a different, more stable way of getting in. Outfitters use various methods of getting large amounts of people into boats quickly and then even sliding the boats into the water. People with this experience have come into rental shops saying they have experience, and then flip at the docks (after which videos and other lessons where made mandatory for all renters). I think using the paddle behind the seat just the best way to go. It's so natural for me I don't even think about it anymore. It works from a dock, in surf, seal landing, adjacent to a beach, in a river - I've even used it to get part way out when I couldn't land and had to go to the ladies room....and if the shaft breaks, it should just be replaced by the manufacturer. My old Dawn Treader by Derek Hutchinson has the old fashioned small cockpit, and frankly, unless I do a re-enter and roll, there is no way I can get into it or out of it without the paddle. After finishing the one race I ever ran (sea to ski in Bellingham), my friends thought they were doing me a favor by taking my paddle and throwing it up on the lawn. I was begging them to help me out of the boat so I could run and ring the gong - but then of course I discovered that both my legs were asleep. Anyway. Andree Hurley On Water Sports - http://www.onwatersports.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Like some others who have written in, I always used the paddle as a brace when entering or exiting from a shelving beach without surf too. But some years ago a Brit BCU instructor whom I respect greatly (Phil Daligan) made it very clear that he doesn't think "sitting on the paddle" is a valid way to enter. Since then I've made a real effort *not* to use the paddle. With the "Euro" paddle - With the boat floating in 8 10 18 inches of water, even with the round-chined Romany, it's easy enough to enter either by stradding the boat and easing in , or by sitting "side-saddle" with weight centered over the boat's center, right at the cockpit rim, or just behind the rim. You can then slide in one leg while supporting the boat with the other foot on the bottom of the beach. For exiting the boat, those same moves work well in reverse. If there are enough waves so I think I can't easily get in or out as described above, and yet not enough to warrant a seal launch, the paddle can be positioned well *aft* of where I'm going to sit. Either way, ideally the paddle is not jammed against the bottom of the beach, but is balanced, ready to support if needed. At most, it should only touch the bottom lightly. With the Greenland paddle's bouyancy, allowing the paddle blade to touch the bottom is not often necessary. Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 4/20/00 3:08:15 PM, MJAkayaker_at_aol.com writes: << One of the first items that the student needed to demonstrate was getting in and out of the kayak without using a paddle. >> I mentioned this to my instructor last summer and Dana didn't even know it was there. She said it didn't sound right to her. Joan Spinner using her paddle for balance *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> -----Original Message----- > From: Robert C. Cline [mailto:rccline_at_swbell.net] > Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:16 AM > > I was using a carbon paddle for a low brace in deep water, > and the shaft > broke catastrophically.. I went right into the water. > C'mon Robert, fess up - who was the paddle manufacturer and what was their response (if you contacted them)? Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Shame on me. I should have known this question was coming. The blade was a Lendall Archipelligo. I bought this blade from Sweetwater Kayak in St. Pete, Florida. Jean was out on the trip with me and saw the paddle shaft break as I attempted to do an eskimo rescue. I made it up to about a 30 to 40 degree angle to the victim's boat as his hands waved back and forth requesing the rescue, and as the he reached up and grabbed my bow, since I was off perpendicular, when the paddler pulled himself out of the water, he pulled me over. Trying to brace against his tug, I did a sharp low brace that snapped the paddle into two pieces. I went in. It was a clean break...it just snapped right in two. Boy, was I surprised. I never expected it. When we got back in the shop, Sweetwater offered to either "fix it" or give me a new paddle, my choice. I took a brand new paddle. I like the Lendall, but now I never leave home without a spare. Robert Dave Seng wrote:> > C'mon Robert, fess up - who was the paddle manufacturer and what was their > response (if you contacted them)? > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Robert C. Cline [mailto:rccline_at_swbell.net] >> Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 6:16 AM >> >> I was using a carbon paddle for a low brace in deep water, >> and the shaft >> broke catastrophically.. I went right into the water. >> *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Thanks for the good descriptions of do's and don'ts. I do make sure that I sit on the kayak (with the paddle underneath me) and not on the extended part of the paddle. I try to keep the support blade completely out of the water. Usually when I start to slide into the cockpit the support blade will contact the surface and give me the support I need without going underwater. This is especially true now that I am using a greenland paddle. I have noticed a problem when having new paddlers get in by themselves for the first couple of times. If I have them start with the support blade out of the water and they start to roll away from the support side, they violently lean back to the other side. They can drive the blade down to the bottom pretty fast and put a lot of pressure on the paddle. For the first couple of solo entrys I usually have them start with the support blade on the bottom and mention about a thousand times not to lean too hard. Having that slight support from the beginning seems to keep them from suddenly shifting weight and putting extreme pressure on the paddle. After a few entries and exits this way they usually get enough balance to be able to start with the support blade on the surface or just above it. Do not know if this is good "teaching technique" or not, but no one has broken one of my paddles yet. Of course that could just be luck. . If I am going to get certified, I guess I need to go out and practice getting in and out without a paddle. Maybe if I practice enough I will finally get the nerve to try standing up in the kayak. Mark J. Arnold *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
On Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:46:01 Kirk Olsen wrote: >If you have a lightweight paddle it's possible to break the paddleshaft. I'm pretty sure at least Lightning recommends against doing this, particularly with their carbon paddles. I don't know whether or not lightning recommends against doing this, but I've been doing this and many other things which put way more stress on the paddle blades and loom on my lightning paddles (carbon) for several years and my paddles have yet to break, nor do I have any give at the ferrules (both are split paddles). And NO, I don't work for them, just like the blades. Anyway, if one is reasonably careful when entering a kayak using the paddle for support, generally I've found there isn't too much force on the loom or blades. Spencer A. Smith HotBot - Search smarter. http://www.hotbot.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I just checked the BCU booklet. For one star, for embarking it does say "the paddle must remain within reach or can be used to assist in > embarking, and for disembarking it's silent about where the paddle is. For two star, instructions for embarking are the same, but for disembarking it does in fact say "eixt kayak without use of the paddle." I had never heard of this, but the first BCU course I took was three star, which only provides that "the candidate...be able to launch safely and efficiently from any reasonable launching spot," and doesn't seem to care how (or if) you get out of the boat. I learned to enter and exit the boat using my paddle for an assist, and that's still how I do it. Joan On Thu, 20 Apr 2000 15:46:56 -0400 Sidney_Stone_at_amsinc.com writes: > I went to the mentioned site and here is the quote from the 1 star > test: "The > paddle must remain within reach or can be used to assist in > embarking". I would > interpret this as saying the paddle may be used for support during > entry (and > exit). Or if one is nimble the paddle may be held in any manner > while entering > the kayak. > > What is most important, however, is the enter and exit the kayak > from the > correct side, which differs depending on which side of the pond one > resides. I > will leave it to others more knowledgeable in deciphering such > intricacies of > paddling to elaborate, but I always enter from the curb side. > > sid > > > > (Embedded > image moved MJAkayaker_at_aol.com > to file: 04/20/2000 03:01 PM > pic26151.pcx) > > > > > To: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > cc: (bcc: Sidney Stone/AMS/AMSINC) > Subject: [Paddlewise] BCU kayak entry & exit > > > > I was looking at the BCU training/testing requirements for 1 and 2 > star > certification and saw something confusing. One of the first items > that the > student needed to demonstrate was getting in and out of the kayak > without > using a paddle. I think it said something else like "paddle must be > kept > nearby within reach". I have always used a paddle across the back > deck for > extra support when getting in and out of the kayak. Is there > something wrong > with using the paddle (ie I should never be doing this) or is this a > test to > master and demonstrate balance, (ie it is good to learn but it is > not > necessarily the way you always do it) or is there some other reason > (such as > I completely misunderstood what was being said). > > Rest of the descriptions made very good sense and gave my some good > ideas for > things to practice. I was reading from the selections at > http://www.bcu.org.uk/Coaching/pdfdocs.htm. > > Hope some of you BCU coaches can enlighten me. > > Mark J. Arnold > MJAkayaker_at_aol.com > > > > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** > > > > > [demime 0.92b removed an attachment of type application/octet-stream > which had a name of pic26151.pcx] > ************************************************************************* ** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author > and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > ************************************************************************* ** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Yes. But, is your paddle graphite? Joan volinjo_at_juno.com wrote: > Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:23:13 -0400 > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] BCU kayak entry & exit > > I learned to enter and exit > the boat using my paddle for an assist, and that's still how I do it. > > Joan *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
One is - it's the one I usually use as a spare, but when I use it to paddle with I enter and exit the boat exactly the same. I've never known anyone to break a paddle that way. On Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:21:32 -0500 "Robert C. Cline" <rccline_at_swbell.net> writes: > Yes. But, is your paddle graphite? > > > > Joan volinjo_at_juno.com wrote: > > Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 00:23:13 -0400 > > > Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] BCU kayak entry & exit > > > > I learned to enter and exit > > the boat using my paddle for an assist, and that's still how I do > it. > > > > Joan > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Andree said: <SNIP> I think using the paddle behind the seat just the best way to go. It's so natural for me I don't even think about it anymore. It works from a dock, in surf, seal landing, adjacent to a beach, in a river - - I've even used it to get part way out when I couldn't land and had to go to the ladies room....and if the shaft breaks, it should just be replaced by the manufacturer. <SNIP> I couldn't agree more. I think this is a good entry/exit to first teach. If you have a light weight shaft just be careful to not put all your weight on it, fall on it, or lever it hard against something over too small an area of the shaft. I think that one of the reasons that this entry/exit is so secure is not due to the paddle being there though, it is because holding the paddle to the back of your cockpit forces you to put the weight you are transferring to the boat right over the center line of the boat. Once you understand this there are many situations where you can dispense with the paddle. Most notably, when next to a dock where the dock height may not be ideal for using the paddle due to the angles involved or risk of paddle damage over a hard edge. Side note: I have seen three paddles broken by a cleat on a dock. This danger is not obvious so I want to point it out. If you put the paddle under the cleat (or under anything that will restrict it from being able to move upward while the shoreward end of the paddle can't move down you risk breaking that shaft (even strong glass ones) by levering it up under the cleat. This is because the weight you are removing from the kayak (whatever you weight) will allow the water you had previously displaced to force the shaft up under the narrow edge (such as the bottom of the cleat) with up to the force of the weight you just removed from the kayak. Nobody would fix the paddle firmly over the edge of the dock and then stand on the overhanging blade because the risk to the shaft is intuitively obvious (but not that much different as far as the paddle is concerned than getting out of the kayak with the paddle rigidly fixed down to the dock). Matt Broze http://www.marinerkayaks.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
When I took my Four Star exam, I was asked to demonstrate entering my kayak without the use of the paddle, but I don't know how much it counted. Since then I have regularly practiced entering the kayak without bracing, and have gotten pretty good at it, but I always have my Greenland paddle behind me ready to brace with if necessary. Chuck Holst *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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