PaddleWise by thread

From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 17:51:30 -0700
Some one just pointed out to me a 1995 K-Light that is going for $1,525
on Ebay!

It is:

Title of item:  Feathercraft K-Light Folding Kayak
Seller: davidcortner_at_pobox.com
Starts: Mar-29-00 18:52:51 PST
Ends:   Apr-08-00 19:52:51 PDT
Price:  Currently $1,525.00
To bid on the item, go to:      
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=296305366

The model is the old original form of the K-Light which weighed 29
pounds.  It has the lighter hull material that the company abandoned by
1996 and a 2 piece aluminum tubular coaming; the combination allowed
them to use a carrying bag that is several inches shorter and less wide
than the current ones.  I think by that time the company started putting
on keelstrips that were of the heavier hypalon material rather than the
light stuff.  That would bring the weight to 30 pounds but prove
tougher. 

Guess what the new price for that older model was back then?  $1,580. 
So a five year old boat is at a bid just $55 less than the original
price.  True it does include the 4-piece paddle which then went for
about $200.

I am amazed!

ralph diaz


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 18:16:02
At 05:51 PM 4/7/00 -0700, ralph diaz wrote:
>Some one just pointed out to me a 1995 K-Light that is going for $1,525
>on Ebay!
>

I can beat that. There's a 1998 Klepper Aerius II on allaboutboats for a
flat $1000!

http://www.allaboutboats.com/search/boat/?

Search under "kayak". The boat is located in New Jersey. There's a couple
other good deals on there, too.

-- Wes



***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:58:26 -0700
Wes Boyd wrote:
> 
> At 05:51 PM 4/7/00 -0700, ralph diaz wrote:
> >Some one just pointed out to me a 1995 K-Light that is going for $1,525
> >on Ebay!
> >
> 
> I can beat that. There's a 1998 Klepper Aerius II on allaboutboats for a
> flat $1000!
> 
> http://www.allaboutboats.com/search/boat/?

It may be a bogus ad.  The package listed is worth about $5,000 or more
new.  Or someone is selling it as a part of an ugly divorce and is
trying to screw his/her ex of the cash value.  Or someone really doesn't
know its value.

ralph diaz 
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 22:58:50 -0700 (PDT)
Ralph Diaz wrote:

> Wes Boyd wrote:

> > I can beat that. There's a 1998 Klepper Aerius II on allaboutboats for a
> > flat $1000!
> > 
> > http://www.allaboutboats.com/search/boat/?
> 
> It may be a bogus ad.  The package listed is worth about $5,000 or more
> new.  Or someone is selling it as a part of an ugly divorce and is
> trying to screw his/her ex of the cash value.  Or someone really doesn't
> know its value.
> 
> ralph diaz 


Well, I called about this boat :-)

This price does not include the skin and the gentleman selling the boat
says he refinished the wooden frame.  I can't imagine why a 1998 frame
would need to be refinished but I'd really want to see this first.  He
said the skins run about 2,000, he bought the frame at some kind of
sailing event and does not know what happened to the skin.

Location is New Jersey.

Cheers,

Jackie
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Paul Raymond <kayaker37_at_hotmail.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 09:00:22 EDT
Read the ad carefully. It does not include the hull. I just called and 
confirmed this. It is also not a 98. That's when the present owner purchased 
it used from a sailing club. It is also missing sails, and basically all 
fabric items. He has revarnished it. Anyone know what a klepper frame is 
used of unknown age?

"The folding wood frame of this 17 foot Eskimo-style kayak, which is for 
sale..."

Paul


> >
> > At 05:51 PM 4/7/00 -0700, ralph diaz wrote:
> > >Some one just pointed out to me a 1995 K-Light that is going for $1,525
> > >on Ebay!
> > >
> >
> > I can beat that. There's a 1998 Klepper Aerius II on allaboutboats for a
> > flat $1000!
> >
> > http://www.allaboutboats.com/search/boat/?
>
>It may be a bogus ad.  The package listed is worth about $5,000 or more
>new.  Or someone is selling it as a part of an ugly divorce and is
>trying to screw his/her ex of the cash value.  Or someone really doesn't
>know its value.


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 09:41:35 -0700
Paul Raymond wrote:
> 
> Read the ad carefully. It does not include the hull. I just called and
> confirmed this. It is also not a 98. That's when the present owner purchased
> it used from a sailing club. It is also missing sails, and basically all
> fabric items. He has revarnished it. Anyone know what a klepper frame is
> used of unknown age?
> 
> "The folding wood frame of this 17 foot Eskimo-style kayak, which is for
> sale..."


I wondered about the possibility of it being just the frame and sailing
hardware.  But the language was unclear.

It is a bit lacking in ethics to call it a 1998 because he purchased it
in 1998.  There are ways of telling what range of years the frame might
be just by looking at the piece.  While there is complete compatability
of that Aerius line from the early 1950s to present day (you could take
a Number 3 rib for example from Dr. Lindemann's 1956 transatlantic boat
and place it in a boat made in 2000) there are little subtle differences
that helps pin down the years some.  And if it is of a more recent
vintage, of say the last 15 years, even the individual year.  All the
pieces seem to be there from his count of frame parts.

Since wooden frames can go on forever (I have parts from a 1930s boat
that are still supple for a specific placement that needs them not to be
stiff) it would be okay to buy and then get a hull.  You would in effect
have a new boat.  All the sailing hardware is handy too as a sail can be
made or bought and a jib which is necessary for that sail arrangement to
beat upwind.

I have a friend here in New York City, an artist/sculptor, who is well
into the Greenland kayak culture (an enormous personal library) and
paddles a Betsie Bay.  Prominently hanging in his loft studio/home is
the frame of a single Klepper from the 1960s or 1970s.  It is a
cherished work of art as are other objects he has acquired or created. 
He is talking about trying to temporarily skin it with heat shrink nylon
to see how it would behave.  The boat, the Aerius I, normally has a beam
of 28 inches because of sponsons.  A shrink skin tightly on it would
bring the beam down to 22.5 inches (we measured it with allowance for
skin thickness). Would be interesting to see what kind of boat it would
be then and how it would handle.  Probably like the T-9 which is a
non-Aerius version of Klepper that was made until fairly recently.

You know, I have been at this folding kayak stuff for a dozen years now
(10 years with the newsletter).  You would think that by now I would
have become jaded, bored or blase about things like looking at a frame,
or watching a folding kayak being assembled.  But it still excites me. 
I still get the same kick out of the frames and the magical apparition
of a boat from a bag that I got when I first saw one emerge.  I hope I
never lose the joy.

ralph diaz
-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Ralph Diaz . . . Folding Kayaker newsletter
PO Box 0754, New York, NY 10024
Tel: 212-724-5069; E-mail: rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com
"Where's your sea kayak?"----"It's in the bag."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 10:26:00 -0700 (PDT)
> From: ralph diaz <rdiaz_at_ix.netcom.com>

> I wondered about the possibility of it being just the frame and sailing
> hardware.  But the language was unclear.
> 
> It is a bit lacking in ethics to call it a 1998 because he purchased it
> in 1998. 


I agree.  The ad is quite misleading.  When I called the man, I specifically 
asked him if it was 1998 and he said yes.  Though he told me he refinished it,
he did not say in 1998. Here it is (it does not say the skin is not included
though once you know the facts you can read "the folding wood frame is for
sale" and not "this 17 foot Eskimo-style kayak, which is for sale"): 

      1998 Klepper Aerius II Kayak , 17 feet,
      Klepper Aerius Two-Seater. This is same
      type of kayak that Hannes Lindemann used
      to cross the Atlantic Ocean. The folding
      wood frame of this 17 foot Eskimo-style
      kayak, which is for sale, consists of 27
      wooden parts, two seats, and two backrests.
      The asking price of $1000 also includes: a
      cockpit cover, boat cart, two double paddles,
      rudder, lee board crossbar, two lee boards,
      main mast, the gaff mast, and boom. This
      Klepper kayak is located in Northern New
      Jersey.For pictures go to the Klepper web site.
      $1,000.00,

(I have omitted the telephone number)

Cheers,

Jackie


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:28:57
At 10:26 AM 4/8/00 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote:

>I agree.  The ad is quite misleading.  When I called the man, I specifically 
>asked him if it was 1998 and he said yes.  Though he told me he refinished
it,
>he did not say in 1998. Here it is (it does not say the skin is not included
>though once you know the facts you can read "the folding wood frame is for
>sale" and not "this 17 foot Eskimo-style kayak, which is for sale"): 

You're right, it is misleading. I never picked up on it. Sorry to have
touched off your bargian hunter instincts. However, I do check this site
and search under "kayaks" from time to time, because I do see some pretty
good bargians go past on it.

-- Wes

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 13:50:50 -0700 (PDT)
> From boydwe_at_dmci.net Sat Apr  8 13:26 PDT 2000
> 
> At 10:26 AM 4/8/00 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote:
> 
> >I agree.  The ad is quite misleading.  When I called the man, I specifically 
> >asked him if it was 1998 and he said yes.  Though he told me he refinished
> it,
> >he did not say in 1998. Here it is (it does not say the skin is not included
> >though once you know the facts you can read "the folding wood frame is for
> >sale" and not "this 17 foot Eskimo-style kayak, which is for sale"): 
> 
> You're right, it is misleading. I never picked up on it. Sorry to have
> touched off your bargian hunter instincts. 


No apology necessary.  I didn't pick up on it either until I called the 
guy.  That's what makes it misleading.  You know what they say about 
"if it sounds too good to be true... "  Never hurts to check it out,
though. Maybe $1000 for a refinished frame that had all the parts plus 
everything else he was offering is a reasonable price.  Hard to tell 
without knowing the real age of the kayak frame and seeing it.  I'll bet
he has wasted a lot of his own time with his ad and wishes he had been
more accurate with his description :-)   But like Ralph said, a good
frame and new skin and you could basically have a new boat.  I think the
man said the skin was $2000.  Not too bad.

Cheers,

Jackie (always interested in hearing about a good deal on a double folder)

***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************
From: Wes Boyd <boydwe_at_dmci.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] the incredible resale prices on some folding kayaks
Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 14:16:42
At 01:50 PM 4/8/00 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote:
>> From boydwe_at_dmci.net Sat Apr  8 13:26 PDT 2000

>> You're right, it is misleading. I never picked up on it. Sorry to have
>> touched off your bargian hunter instincts. 
>
>No apology necessary.  I didn't pick up on it either until I called the 
>guy.  That's what makes it misleading.  You know what they say about 
>"if it sounds too good to be true... "  Never hurts to check it out,
>though. Maybe $1000 for a refinished frame that had all the parts plus 

I wish now that I had included "caveat emptor" in my original reply.

>everything else he was offering is a reasonable price.  Hard to tell 
>without knowing the real age of the kayak frame and seeing it.  I'll bet
>he has wasted a lot of his own time with his ad and wishes he had been
>more accurate with his description :-)   But like Ralph said, a good
>frame and new skin and you could basically have a new boat.  I think the
>man said the skin was $2000.  Not too bad.

As I just wrote to Ralph in a back channel, bargains do occasionally come
up, whether, from his observation, messy divorces or just not knowing the
real worth. There are other reasons. On another yacht sales site, there are
at least two boats for sale that could well be at 10-20% of their true
value. One is part of an estate sale, and the other was donated to some
foundation. Apparently the people selling aren't sailors and don't want to
have to deal with the slippage, overhead and maintenance involved, and just
want the boats out of their faces. Both of the boats are in California, and
moving them to this part of the world, however, makes them not such a great
deal. Stuff like that does come up, however, and it never hurts to keep
your ears on.

-- Wes


***************************************************************************
PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not
to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
Submissions:     paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net
Subscriptions:   paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net
Website:         http://www.paddlewise.net/
***************************************************************************

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.4.0 : Thu Aug 21 2025 - 16:33:12 PDT