RE: [Paddlewise] Paul Caffyn and rudders

So it seems you were experiencing the strong weather helm that I too noticed
in the Caribou. The drop skeg should fix this though when it is necessary. I
really liked the responsiveness of the Caribou and can see how paddlers
could become devoted fans of it (especially if they have one with the skeg
or stay out of side winds--and haven't paddled some of the kayaks you have
for comparison).

Matt Broze
http://www.marinerkayaks.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gerald Foodman [mailto:klagjf_at_worldnet.att.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2000 9:31 PM
> To: Matt Broze; Paddlewise
> Cc: Fred Mansueto
> Subject: Re: Paul Caffyn and rudders
>
>
>
>
> Matt wrote:
> > I'm surprised by your experience with
> >the Caribou in following seas. Usually hard chine boats that respond well
> to
> >a lean turn like the Caribou does do well there. Maybe its that old
> >proactive/reactive preference of yours, or maybe I should try it out for
> >myself in following seas (or at least a steep boatwake) instead of
> believing
> >the ravings and first impressions of blind men.
> >
>
>  I did not paddle the Caribou in following seas.  It was on
> protected water
> but with very strong wind, 25 knots with gusts to 35.  It was extremely
> difficult for me to hold direction.  A skeg would certainly have
> helped but
> there was so much wind effect that I felt that it was the hull
> shape itself
> that was poorly designed.  I have no trouble at all in this condition with
> the Express.  And very little with the GTS, even with the rudder raised.
> Even with the seat out of trim the Express hull is not very
> affected by wind
> and can be turned easily.  The GTS tracks extremely straight in
> wind.  It is
> almost completely unaffected and goes straight.  But it takes considerable
> effort to turn.  I think the Caribou would be great in surf, but not wind.
> Again, I know that there are enthusiastic fans of the Caribou.  I believe
> that a necessary, but not sufficient condition, for a good design is near
> neutral behavior of boat and paddler in any direction of wind, without
> rudder or skeg.  The Express and GTS meet this, in different ways, but the
> Caribou does not.
>
> Matt wrote:
> >I forgot you had paddled the Mariner II. Essentially Doug is
> repeating what
> >he interpreted one blind man to have said. I'm surprised that you think
> >there is much to learn about the Elephant from heresay once
> removed from a
> >blind man.
> >>
>
> I don't think this is fair.  I am interested in what Doug has heard and in
> how he filters it before passing it on.  Opinions are interesting and food
> for thought.
>
> Matt wrote:
> >Since you paddled the Mariner II and have read what others have written
> >about the Nordkapp why did you need to ask the question of Doug that
> started
> >this thread.
>
> I did not need to ask the question.  But look at all the fascinating
> discussion it has prompted.  I just received detailed opinions on my
> favorite topic from two of my favorite commentators.  You and Doug.
>
> Matt wrote:
> >This may lose me a sale, but, I doubt you will find a huge
> >difference between the Mariner II and the Express in a following
> sea unless
> >you are carrying a gear load (I'm not sure if you are interested in its
> >handling when the kayak is empty or when gear laden or both). The mariner
> II
> >is better with a gear load than the Express in following seas.
> The Mariner
> >Max requires less proactiveness than either the Express or the Mariner II
> in
> >a following sea--empty or loaded down. >
>
> >From my one day in Deception Pass with the Mariner II my
> perception is that
> it was significantly easier to power through any turbulence than it would
> have been in the Express.  Therefore it seemed more forgiving.  I did not
> notice any significant difference in stability.  Maybe the Express would
> have been better for playing.  The MAX felt too big for me and felt
> noticeably less efficient than the II.
>
> Jerry
>

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