[Paddlewise] the "bombproof" roll

Vince Dalrymple said:

>>I remember a friend's incident a few winters back.  He's also a WW
paddler (1st & foremost), rodeo playboater really, who rolls WERE
"bombproof" - on and offside.<<

How about "reliable" instead of  "bombproof"? Nothing is bombproof, not
even a bunker because there is always a bigger bomb.

>>With water temp. about 40 and air temp. around 50, he came paddling
with
our group dressed in a shorty (or farmer john) wetsuit.  Pushed against
the ~20 kt. wind down to a play area that was kicking up, wore ourselves

out (least I did :-), and surfed back up the shore as the wind and waves

picked up.<<

That is very cold water indeed. Was he wearing an appropriate dry top?
What kind of head gear?

>>Our group was in a very loose spread with him about 25~50
yds. in front of me at the back end of the group (I was sweep that
day).  Whether he got sloppy or just fell asleep at the helm, he caught
something wrong and capsized.<<

What kind of boat was he in? WW? Sea kayak? What width? Was this his
normal kayak?  Loaned? Had he hardly ever paddled it, even if it was his
own?

>>I watched him set up for a roll on his
good side, down wind as his capsized boat turned to broach the wind /
waves.  As soon as he went for the hip flick, the paddle shaft went
vertical and back over he went (C2C, I think).  Good pause before the
next attempt - same side.  Same vertical shaft and failed roll (Sweep
Roll, I think).  Another pause.  His last roll attempt (as I reached
him) was an extended pawlata (same side again) with the same results.>>

His problem was obvious...no neck-thrustn', cervical-cracking, wayward,
full-on head dink (!), and the even more obvious...obviously he was
using a feathered paddle.    :-)

>>With my reaching him on the upwind side and his rolls being on the
down
wind side, he didn't know I was there for a bow rescue and popped out of

his boat.  Surprisingly, he was a lot more frustrated with three
consecutive blown rolls than he was cold (guess you WW paddlers already
have ice in your veins).  Helped clear his boat and got him back in it
as the other paddlers arrived and everything worked out.<<

Boat-over-boat, T-rescue, pump-out, or????

>>His problem had been that his broached boat was being blown over the
paddle with more force than he could apply downwards to execute the
roll.  I kind of doubt that even Doug Lloyd or Matt Broze could have
pulled off the down wind rolls he was trying that day.<<

Can't speak for Matt (he keeps most of his gonzo stuff to himself, being
responsible and all). As for me, no, I probably would not have executed
a lee-sided broach roll, but then I would not usually have attempted one
either (or if I did, I'd try one and only one, then quickly shift under
water to an up-wind roll which actually takes some of the work out of it
for you). I've done that in some much higher winds/seas  than you allude
to, and I will periodically go out precisely into those conditions just
to practice that very same maneuver. In cold water where inadequate
thermal head protection is being worn, I will not waste my time trying
even one down-wind roll, though I have practiced coming part way up on
the downwind side, the letting gravity pull me back down from partial
success to fully capsized, whereupon momentum can help you come back up
on the up-wind side (depends on PFD buoyancy and how big a footprint you
present to the water).  Also, down-wind rolling isn't that difficult
with longer wave periods if you time it during the trough, where the
gusts go overhead and the wave hasn't slammed the hull yet. On the
up-wind roll-up, one does it precisely _when_ the trough passes by and
the wave does hit. I'm not a super big guy, but do have a bit of weight
atop, so I've had to develop these strategies to get back up after a
knock down.

>>Lesson #1 - Can't roll up on one side due to the forces working
against
you?
        Switch sides and make the conditions work for you.
        He could have possibly hand rolled his way back up
        on his off, but up wind side _that_ day.
        Best example I know to have an offside roll, even a sloppy one
;-)
Lesson #2 - There's no such thing as a 100% BOMBPROOF roll
        So have a good Reentry & Roll in the repertoire and
        always approach the sea with respect before it teaches you
humility>>

Didn't read far enough ahead on your post, Vince. I see you have some
good conclusions here. It is good to realize, however (opinion time!),
that a roll to me is not a sign of failure. Coming out of your boat is.
Once you have left the security of your vessel, you have failed
miserably. You are a failure in my book if you do that. I've been a
failure in my book a couple of times! Anything that keeps you in your
cockpit after a partial or fully consummated capsize is fine, be it a
reliable roll, sculling-to-upright, ready-to-use paddle float on the
rear deck, hand-roll, throwing stick roll, or a "Back Up" Co2 rescue
device, whatever.

The off-side roll thing can be a pain. Practice practice. Keep up some
kind of stretching regime, as that may be part of the problem. Surfing
with moderate high braces into medium sized waves on your off-side is
also a good way to develop some confidence with the off-side problem.
Learn to turn you bow into the wind and waves, while upside down. Its
not that difficult using an extended Pawlata, and you don't need a full
90 degree turn - just lots of lung capacity and will power. Can't get a
good offside roll no matter what. Fine, just make sure your good-sided
roll is reliable under combat situations, and you have a 50%
chance...okay, 49% :-).

>>Vince
mid Atlantic storm paddler
who hasn't gone for an unintentional swim
yet<<

Vince, you guys had the lovely "perfect storm" on you coast  few years
ago (the movie is coming out at the end of June). Did any paddlers get
out from your area to try it out, even if in a protected basin or
whatever?

Then,  Dave Seng said:


>>Dear Paddlewiser's,
  Not to cast aspersions on anyone's technique (because I know there are

many paddlers on this list with far greater skills than I may ever hope
to achieve - and I mean that quite seriously), but can anyone really
claim to have a "bombproof" roll? <<

This rolling debate is kind of like rolling...you can keep going round
and round about it. :-)  (In general, not you, Dave). Chris Duff told me
he had a "bombproof roll". Of course, I asked him why he then wears a
personal boat-to-paddler tether. He said in case it isn't "bombproof"! I
have a fairly "bombproof roll", but tether myself too, at times. I know
I'm capable of blowing my roll (mostly my off-side roll). For myself, my
roll isn't "boobproof" either! Our club was practicing under a bridge
here in Victoria a few years ago, utilizing a reversing falls that
really honks along at certain times. We were assessing instructors for
their ability to teach novices how to cross eddy lines and mostly, lean
down stream. As it wasn't a full-on gung-ho production, we omitted
helmets. Near full ebb at the end of the session, I decided to see if I
could be the only one to power through the jet-like current, through the
narrow confines of the bridge abutments. I did actually manage to get my
Nordkapp through. I tried it a second time to prove my superiority as an
uphill paddlers of caliber, but the second attempt sent me into an
upstream lean. I immediately tripped over, leaving myself hanging upside
down. All I remember is hitting my head on an ebb stream submerged rock
in mid channel, and coming to the surface gasping for life and air. An
instructor trainer in training rescued me, and couldn't understand why I
had wet exited in front of the students (I was supposedly an observer
only). Well... it was hard to do a head-dink from a head-dunk when you
just about suffered a head-dislodgement!

<<I came to sea kayaking from a
whitewater paddling background and must say that while I've paddled with

some VERY good paddlers I've never met anyone who had never taken a
swim.  In the large part many (most?) sea kayakers may never encounter
the same types of violent, unpredictable forces that WW can produce, but

I'm still somewhat skeptical of this whole concept of, "my roll's so
reliable that I'll never have to swim".

Dave, WW boats are a different paddlecraft. I can spend a full day in
the surf zone, in a WW kayak, rolling till the cows come home -- never
missing a beat. Can't do that in a sea kayak While WW kayakers should
never claim a "bombproof roll" as their own, beyond perhaps its accepted
use in the vernacular as a replacement for the word "combat roll" which
WW paddlers frequently do (combat rolling, that is), I can see why they
continue to use the term.

>>I'm not trying to challenge
anyone, but rather asking folks to really evaluate the concept and their

skills.  I've been thrashed, trashed, chewed on, and fortunately spit
up, by waters that had the capacity to kill me.  Blind faith in my
skills would have resulted in exactly that end.  I guess what I'm trying

to remind folks of is that faith in one's skills may (and should be!) a
great source of confidence, but to also remember that the forces of
nature, in the end, can many times far surpass man's skills.<<

It really does feel like the end of the world when you screw up big time
because of hubris, or even due to a little poor planning. You are left
cold, wet, nervous, trying to stay calm and think. Suddenly, in a nano
second, all the training, all the technical skills, all the machismo,
all the thoughts of challenge and adventure (no matter at what level it
ensued), all the certificates and sewn-on badges, and all the "combat
glory" simply depart. One is left with a big lump in their throat
knowing, in most cases, it all could have been avoided with a bit more
good judgment.

>>  There's a quote in the front of Derek Hutchinson's book, "The
Complete
Book of Sea Kayaking" that goes like this, "A man who is not afraid of
the sea will soon be drowned, he said, for he will be going out on a day

he shouldn't.  But we do be afraid of the sea, and we do only be drowned

now and again." - original quote from John Millington Synge - "The Aran
Islands"

Men and women who spend their life vocationally (or in terms of
transportation) in and around the water, have long suffered sudden loss
of life. It is a way of life - and death.  Recreational paddlers. of
course, have a choice where they place themselves. But be assured, the
sea can be a dangerous place, even on a nice day. Novices need to hear
this, and experienced paddlers need to be reminded from time to time.
But like Colin said a couple of years ago in a post, mostly, the
experienced paddler, when they mess up, come home with a cold, wet ars,
but do usually come home. Often a novice doesn't make it home, and often
is wasn't totally their fault, as the sea has a few suprises where
ignorance doesn't yield bliss. Study the environment you intend to
paddle in. That's half the fun of it, anyway. And as far as a reliable
roll, average paddlers may take up to three years to develope a good
one: believe me, I know. Poster and Jester Jed is a bit better than most
of us in this regard.

>>  It's very important to be able to self rescue in a wide range of
conditions (and I'm a firm believer in the concept of self rescue being
the first, best, and only truly reliable rescue) but don't put all your
eggs in the "I can roll" basket.....<<

No, but it is still a good basket. My editorial input to SK magazine has
been to include more on rolling, both in terms of specific items,
historical items, and perhaps even some essay type articles on the
subject. I spoke with a friend here in Victoria recently, and SK is
finally going to run his piece on rolling. I'm eagerly awaiting it in
the next issue. My friend has put a lot of thought into the psychology
of rolling, of the need to make that first one count, and what to do if
you didn't make the first one (we disagree on one issue of hand
placement changes, so I'm curious if that will get covered).
Interestingly, WaveLenght recently had a piece on rolling, and the
editor was sure to qualify the piece by including a brief blurb, telling
readers that rolling wasn't an essential skill. Not sure why that
rolling word scares so many people and/or editors. Anyway, Dave does
have a good point.I would add that hey, if you are going to spend good
money, you usually get three quotes. Likewise, if you are going to put a
good life out on the sea, you should have at least three methods of self
rescue, IMHO.

BC'in Ya
Doug Lloyd



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