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From: John Williams <jwill_at_hiline.net>
subject: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:42:35 -0700
Does anyone besides Texas have this problem?  If so how did you deal with it?

-----Original Message-----
From:	Terry Gulliver [SMTP:tgulliver_at_appliedhydrology.com]
Sent:	Monday, May 22, 2000 3:13 PM
To:	Houston Canoe Club; canoetx_at_world.std.com
Subject:	Re: [HCC] URGENT (was: Boston Tea party)

Houston Canoe Club - http://houstoncanoeclub.org

Neil
Thanks for the lege addresses. I copied Tom Goynes with my letter, and he
suggested I share it, so here it is:

Rep Fred Bosse (et al)
855 Uvalde Rd #A
Houston TX 77015

Sir
I object to the Sunset proposal to license canoes and kayaks to raise funds for
TPWD.

I own four boats that would be subject to these fees, a tandem canoe, a racing
canoe, a fishing kayak and a touring sea kayak. The proposal would cost me over
$120 for craft that use almost no TPWD facilities, and are man powered and
non-polluting. When I do use a TPWD facility such as a ramp, there are users'
fees.

The user-should-pay argument is thus completely invalid in my case, and in the
case of every paddler I know. There could be justification for higher fees for
motorized craft that use ramps and need traffic control for wake erosion etc;
but there is none for man-powered boats.

Paddlers are in fact strong conservators in general rather than consumers. We
are bird-watchers, trash collectors, and reporters of pollution, erosion or
other damage in waters often not accessible to other craft. You should pay me a
fee for my periodic clean-ups after the lard-assed shore-clutterers of my
various launch sites, not be taxing me for parks.

I would also caution that the proposal is seen by the paddling community as a
betrayal of past consensus, and that feelings run high enough for a significant
reaction to licensing. I share those feelings.

Yours truly,
Terry Gulliver


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From: Bill Hansen <bhansen2_at_twcny.rr.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:29:49 -0400
Apparently I've come in on this thread late. Are the great sovereign state
of Texas and its compassionate conservative governor G.W. ("Shrub") Bush
requiring registration of kayaks, but not handguns? George, say it ain't so.

Next up for Texas - a permit to carry a concealed kayak. Ralph D, are you
reading this?

Bill Hansen
Ithaca NY

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From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 09:48:03 -0700 (PDT)
> Apparently I've come in on this thread late. Are the great sovereign state
> of Texas and its compassionate conservative governor G.W. ("Shrub") Bush
> requiring registration of kayaks, but not handguns? George, say it ain't so.
> 
> Next up for Texas - a permit to carry a concealed kayak. Ralph D, are you
> reading this?

arrrrgggggg!  I'm annoyed this was turned into an ignorant self-serving 
rant about something that didn't have anything to do with the original 
topic and is waaaay off-topic.  I for one am interested in the original 
post and would like to hear from other paddlers who may have been presented 
with the same registration/permit problem and how they solved it.

Please keep it on track.

Thanks.

Jackie

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From: <Outfit3029_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 13:55:59 EDT
We do not have canoe and kayak registration in Florida.  There have been 
attempts in the past several years to implement one, but, nothing has passed 
yet.
A strong concerted front from the Professional Paddlesports Association (PPA) 
and a vocal paddling community at large (clubs, individuals, rental 
operations) have stalled the state action. 
Of course, cash is the motivating factor.  The larger the number of vessels 
registered in a state, the larger the percentage of funds from the 
Wallup-Breaux Fund.

 Bruce McC
  WEO

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From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 12:05:36 -0700 (PDT)
From:  Bruce McC

> We do not have canoe and kayak registration in Florida.  There have been 
> attempts in the past several years to implement one, but, nothing has passed 
> yet.

Thanks for your response, Bruce.

If that registration/fee requirement per boat is passed in Texas, I am 
concerned that it will have an impact on paddlers elsewhere if other state
services see this as a solution to more income.  What about out-of-state
visitors and their canoes/kayaks?  Jim, do you have any info on that?

> A strong concerted front from the Professional Paddlesports Association (PPA) 
> and a vocal paddling community at large (clubs, individuals, rental 
> operations) have stalled the state action. 

Was it write-in campaigns?  Can you give more detail about what action
clubs took?  I'm not familiar with PPA.  Is that strictly Florida or is 
it nationwide?  If they are nationwide, do you know how they can be contacted?

> Of course, cash is the motivating factor.  The larger the number of vessels 
> registered in a state, the larger the percentage of funds from the 
> Wallup-Breaux Fund.

What's the Wallup-Breaux Fund?  (or is that tongue-in-cheek :-)

Reminds me of the "Voluntary Tax" on outdoor equipment some group was
trying to push a while back.  I don't know what happened with that but
I know the ACA was fighting it.  Maybe the ACA is already working with
Texas paddlers regarding the registration fee.  They are pretty active
in Texas.  

Jim, please keep us posted and let us know what you find out.

Thanks,

Jackie

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From: <dldecker_at_se.mediaone.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:41:42 -0400
>Was it write-in campaigns?  Can you give more detail about what action
>clubs took?  I'm not familiar with PPA.  Is that strictly Florida or is 
>it nationwide?  If they are nationwide, do you know how they can be
contacted?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jackie


check out http://www.paddleflausa.com/welcome.htm for info on
Professional Paddlesports Association (PPA)
 
 Dana



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From: <whiterabbit_at_empowering.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 16:46:58 -0500
Both Minnesota and Illinois have mandatory registration requirements.  I
can't see where we get much out of it in Illinois.  

Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their
canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes.

At 12:05 PM 05-26-2000 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote:
>From:  Bruce McC
>
>> We do not have canoe and kayak registration in Florida.  There have been 
>> attempts in the past several years to implement one, but, nothing has
passed 
>> yet.
>
>Thanks for your response, Bruce.
>
>If that registration/fee requirement per boat is passed in Texas, I am 
>concerned that it will have an impact on paddlers elsewhere if other state
>services see this as a solution to more income.  What about out-of-state
>visitors and their canoes/kayaks?  Jim, do you have any info on that?
>
>> A strong concerted front from the Professional Paddlesports Association
(PPA) 
>> and a vocal paddling community at large (clubs, individuals, rental 
>> operations) have stalled the state action. 
>
>Was it write-in campaigns?  Can you give more detail about what action
>clubs took?  I'm not familiar with PPA.  Is that strictly Florida or is 
>it nationwide?  If they are nationwide, do you know how they can be
contacted?
>
>> Of course, cash is the motivating factor.  The larger the number of
vessels 
>> registered in a state, the larger the percentage of funds from the 
>> Wallup-Breaux Fund.
>
>What's the Wallup-Breaux Fund?  (or is that tongue-in-cheek :-)
>
>Reminds me of the "Voluntary Tax" on outdoor equipment some group was
>trying to push a while back.  I don't know what happened with that but
>I know the ACA was fighting it.  Maybe the ACA is already working with
>Texas paddlers regarding the registration fee.  They are pretty active
>in Texas.  
>
>Jim, please keep us posted and let us know what you find out.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jackie
>
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>

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From: Jackie Fenton <jackie_at_intelenet.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 15:32:03 -0700 (PDT)
> Both Minnesota and Illinois have mandatory registration requirements.  I
> can't see where we get much out of it in Illinois.  

Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual
license for the owner?

> Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their
> canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes.

Interesting.  Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner
or per launch?

Thanks for the reply,

Jackie

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From: <whiterabbit_at_empowering.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 22:05:35 -0500
It is per boat.  The boat is registered not the owner.  In Minnesota there
is a sticker that goes on the boat.  The owner gets a wallet card that
includes the boat serial number and the registration number.  Theoretically
if the police ever recover a boat they could trace it to it's owner.  I
don't know if it ever happens.

At 03:32 PM 05-26-2000 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote:
>> Both Minnesota and Illinois have mandatory registration requirements.  I
>> can't see where we get much out of it in Illinois.  
>
>Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual
>license for the owner?
>
>> Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their
>> canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes.
>
>Interesting.  Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner
>or per launch?
>
>Thanks for the reply,
>
>Jackie
>
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From: Mark Balogh <batwing_at_kerrlake.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 07:39:36 +0000
Is this for everyone or just state residents?

whiterabbit_at_empowering.com wrote:
> 
> It is per boat.  The boat is registered not the owner.  In Minnesota there
> is a sticker that goes on the boat.  The owner gets a wallet card that
> includes the boat serial number and the registration number.  Theoretically
> if the police ever recover a boat they could trace it to it's owner.  I
> don't know if it ever happens.
> 
> At 03:32 PM 05-26-2000 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote:
> >> Both Minnesota and Illinois have mandatory registration requirements.  I
> >> can't see where we get much out of it in Illinois.
> >
> >Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual
> >license for the owner?
> >
> >> Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their
> >> canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes.



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From: Richard Culpeper <culpeper_at_tbaytel.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Sat, 27 May 2000 09:37:41 -0400
In Minnesota registration is per boat, with discounts for non-profit groups and
for fleets, and exemptions for Canadian boatss and for American boats registered
in other states.

Most play boats are exempt due to length, and most duos pay a extra, again due to
length.

Full details at:  http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/boating.html

Cheers,
Richard Culpeper

>
> Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual
> license for the owner?
>
> > Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their
> > canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes.
>
> Interesting.  Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner
> or per launch?
>
> Thanks for the reply,
>
> Jackie
>
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--
______________________________________________________________________
Richard Culpeper
E-mail: culpeper_at_tbaytel.net
Website: http://www.tbaytel.net/culpeper

"Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore,
We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean,
Wanting never to return."
        -- Kimosippi '95 --
______________________________________________________________________



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From: <Outfit3029_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 18:52:40 EDT
In a message dated 5/26/00 10:38:01 PM !!!First Boot!!!, jackie_at_intelenet.net 
writes:

<< Interesting.  Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner
 or per launch? >>

 I think that this would be part of the problem.  Most states that I am 
familiar with have a per boat registration.  So, how about this?
  You take a nice family vacation.  You decide to take the canoe or kayak.  
You may have a state required registration and a local (city, county or 
other).  You may have to purchase a state, county or local registration/ramp 
pass for each place that you decide to launch.  Sound extreme?  Maybe, but 
not impossible.
 
 Bruce McC
 WEO

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From: Seng, Dave <Dave_Seng_at_health.state.ak.us>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Fri, 26 May 2000 14:41:41 -0800
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jackie Fenton [mailto:jackie_at_intelenet.net]
> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 2:32 PM
snip
> 
> Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual
> license for the owner?

  When I lived in Illinois it was a per boat fee.  I confess to flaunting
the law regarding my OC-1.  But I did register both sea kayaks and was
checked occasionally by the Coast Guard when out paddling.  I could never
figure that one out - I didn't know that the Coasties could enforce State
law.

Dave Seng
Juneau, Alaska 

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From: <AndyTKnapp_at_cs.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 17:37:37 EDT
> Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their
> canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes.

Here are a few more points about the Minnesota registration law. there are 
both plusses and minuses to the way it's set up. The registration is $7 for 
three years for canoes and touring kayaks; however, there is currently an 
added $5 fee for all watercraft to fund the Eurasian Milfoil (a nuisance 
waterplant spread by powerboat props) cleanup and enforcement efforts. 

The $7 portion goes to a dedicated fund that has actually resulted over the 
years in a several thousand-mile network of access points and primitive 
campsites on over a dozen of the state's non-technical rivers. Excellent maps 
of these routes are available from the Minnesota DNR. These are a very 
underutilized resource and an excellent alternative to the crowded BWCA canoe 
wilderness for those who can figure out how to do a shuttle. The funding also 
provides for a staff person who has put in many hours of work on the Lake 
Superior Water Trail of Minnesota, a 150-mile section of the Lake Superior 
coastline.

Unfortunately, the law also requires that watercraft not registered by other 
jurisdictions must obtain a Minnesota license before being used in the state- 
and this includes the BWCA and the Lake Superior Water Trail. Many irate 
out-of state visitors have run into trouble because of overzealous 
enforcement of this provision. Recently, the DNR has made it much easier to 
obtain the licenses from local parks, etc. but it still has a negative impact 
on our tourism image.

The bottom line: if you can't prevent your state or province from licensing 
paddlecraft, make sure the money goes into a dedicated fund.

-Andy Knapp 
Minneapolis
Homebound on a dreary Memorial weekend

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From: <Gypsykayak_at_aol.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] State Registration for Each Kayak
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 2000 16:42:33 EDT
In a message dated 05/26/2000 6:38:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, 
jackie_at_intelenet.net writes:

<< Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner
 or per launch? >>

OH, NO!!!! Us multiple boat owners are going to be in deep doo-doo!

Sandy Kramer

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