Does anyone besides Texas have this problem? If so how did you deal with it? -----Original Message----- From: Terry Gulliver [SMTP:tgulliver_at_appliedhydrology.com] Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 3:13 PM To: Houston Canoe Club; canoetx_at_world.std.com Subject: Re: [HCC] URGENT (was: Boston Tea party) Houston Canoe Club - http://houstoncanoeclub.org Neil Thanks for the lege addresses. I copied Tom Goynes with my letter, and he suggested I share it, so here it is: Rep Fred Bosse (et al) 855 Uvalde Rd #A Houston TX 77015 Sir I object to the Sunset proposal to license canoes and kayaks to raise funds for TPWD. I own four boats that would be subject to these fees, a tandem canoe, a racing canoe, a fishing kayak and a touring sea kayak. The proposal would cost me over $120 for craft that use almost no TPWD facilities, and are man powered and non-polluting. When I do use a TPWD facility such as a ramp, there are users' fees. The user-should-pay argument is thus completely invalid in my case, and in the case of every paddler I know. There could be justification for higher fees for motorized craft that use ramps and need traffic control for wake erosion etc; but there is none for man-powered boats. Paddlers are in fact strong conservators in general rather than consumers. We are bird-watchers, trash collectors, and reporters of pollution, erosion or other damage in waters often not accessible to other craft. You should pay me a fee for my periodic clean-ups after the lard-assed shore-clutterers of my various launch sites, not be taxing me for parks. I would also caution that the proposal is seen by the paddling community as a betrayal of past consensus, and that feelings run high enough for a significant reaction to licensing. I share those feelings. Yours truly, Terry Gulliver ______________________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe, write to HoustonCanoeClub-unsubscribe_at_listbot.com ______________________________________________________________________ Advertisement: 15% off Ashford Collection jewelry for Mother's Day! Mom will love these gorgeous pieces handpicked by our expert jewelry buyers - now 15% off and shipped FedEx overnight FREE! Spoiled as a child? Return the favor - get her gift at Ashford.com. http://on.linkexchange.com/?ATID=27&AID=1231 *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Apparently I've come in on this thread late. Are the great sovereign state of Texas and its compassionate conservative governor G.W. ("Shrub") Bush requiring registration of kayaks, but not handguns? George, say it ain't so. Next up for Texas - a permit to carry a concealed kayak. Ralph D, are you reading this? Bill Hansen Ithaca NY *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Apparently I've come in on this thread late. Are the great sovereign state > of Texas and its compassionate conservative governor G.W. ("Shrub") Bush > requiring registration of kayaks, but not handguns? George, say it ain't so. > > Next up for Texas - a permit to carry a concealed kayak. Ralph D, are you > reading this? arrrrgggggg! I'm annoyed this was turned into an ignorant self-serving rant about something that didn't have anything to do with the original topic and is waaaay off-topic. I for one am interested in the original post and would like to hear from other paddlers who may have been presented with the same registration/permit problem and how they solved it. Please keep it on track. Thanks. Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
We do not have canoe and kayak registration in Florida. There have been attempts in the past several years to implement one, but, nothing has passed yet. A strong concerted front from the Professional Paddlesports Association (PPA) and a vocal paddling community at large (clubs, individuals, rental operations) have stalled the state action. Of course, cash is the motivating factor. The larger the number of vessels registered in a state, the larger the percentage of funds from the Wallup-Breaux Fund. Bruce McC WEO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
From: Bruce McC > We do not have canoe and kayak registration in Florida. There have been > attempts in the past several years to implement one, but, nothing has passed > yet. Thanks for your response, Bruce. If that registration/fee requirement per boat is passed in Texas, I am concerned that it will have an impact on paddlers elsewhere if other state services see this as a solution to more income. What about out-of-state visitors and their canoes/kayaks? Jim, do you have any info on that? > A strong concerted front from the Professional Paddlesports Association (PPA) > and a vocal paddling community at large (clubs, individuals, rental > operations) have stalled the state action. Was it write-in campaigns? Can you give more detail about what action clubs took? I'm not familiar with PPA. Is that strictly Florida or is it nationwide? If they are nationwide, do you know how they can be contacted? > Of course, cash is the motivating factor. The larger the number of vessels > registered in a state, the larger the percentage of funds from the > Wallup-Breaux Fund. What's the Wallup-Breaux Fund? (or is that tongue-in-cheek :-) Reminds me of the "Voluntary Tax" on outdoor equipment some group was trying to push a while back. I don't know what happened with that but I know the ACA was fighting it. Maybe the ACA is already working with Texas paddlers regarding the registration fee. They are pretty active in Texas. Jim, please keep us posted and let us know what you find out. Thanks, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>Was it write-in campaigns? Can you give more detail about what action >clubs took? I'm not familiar with PPA. Is that strictly Florida or is >it nationwide? If they are nationwide, do you know how they can be contacted? > >Thanks, > >Jackie check out http://www.paddleflausa.com/welcome.htm for info on Professional Paddlesports Association (PPA) Dana *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Both Minnesota and Illinois have mandatory registration requirements. I can't see where we get much out of it in Illinois. Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes. At 12:05 PM 05-26-2000 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote: >From: Bruce McC > >> We do not have canoe and kayak registration in Florida. There have been >> attempts in the past several years to implement one, but, nothing has passed >> yet. > >Thanks for your response, Bruce. > >If that registration/fee requirement per boat is passed in Texas, I am >concerned that it will have an impact on paddlers elsewhere if other state >services see this as a solution to more income. What about out-of-state >visitors and their canoes/kayaks? Jim, do you have any info on that? > >> A strong concerted front from the Professional Paddlesports Association (PPA) >> and a vocal paddling community at large (clubs, individuals, rental >> operations) have stalled the state action. > >Was it write-in campaigns? Can you give more detail about what action >clubs took? I'm not familiar with PPA. Is that strictly Florida or is >it nationwide? If they are nationwide, do you know how they can be contacted? > >> Of course, cash is the motivating factor. The larger the number of vessels >> registered in a state, the larger the percentage of funds from the >> Wallup-Breaux Fund. > >What's the Wallup-Breaux Fund? (or is that tongue-in-cheek :-) > >Reminds me of the "Voluntary Tax" on outdoor equipment some group was >trying to push a while back. I don't know what happened with that but >I know the ACA was fighting it. Maybe the ACA is already working with >Texas paddlers regarding the registration fee. They are pretty active >in Texas. > >Jim, please keep us posted and let us know what you find out. > >Thanks, > >Jackie > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Both Minnesota and Illinois have mandatory registration requirements. I > can't see where we get much out of it in Illinois. Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual license for the owner? > Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their > canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes. Interesting. Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner or per launch? Thanks for the reply, Jackie *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
It is per boat. The boat is registered not the owner. In Minnesota there is a sticker that goes on the boat. The owner gets a wallet card that includes the boat serial number and the registration number. Theoretically if the police ever recover a boat they could trace it to it's owner. I don't know if it ever happens. At 03:32 PM 05-26-2000 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote: >> Both Minnesota and Illinois have mandatory registration requirements. I >> can't see where we get much out of it in Illinois. > >Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual >license for the owner? > >> Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their >> canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes. > >Interesting. Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner >or per launch? > >Thanks for the reply, > >Jackie > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Is this for everyone or just state residents? whiterabbit_at_empowering.com wrote: > > It is per boat. The boat is registered not the owner. In Minnesota there > is a sticker that goes on the boat. The owner gets a wallet card that > includes the boat serial number and the registration number. Theoretically > if the police ever recover a boat they could trace it to it's owner. I > don't know if it ever happens. > > At 03:32 PM 05-26-2000 -0700, Jackie Fenton wrote: > >> Both Minnesota and Illinois have mandatory registration requirements. I > >> can't see where we get much out of it in Illinois. > > > >Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual > >license for the owner? > > > >> Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their > >> canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes. *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In Minnesota registration is per boat, with discounts for non-profit groups and for fleets, and exemptions for Canadian boatss and for American boats registered in other states. Most play boats are exempt due to length, and most duos pay a extra, again due to length. Full details at: http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/boating.html Cheers, Richard Culpeper > > Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual > license for the owner? > > > Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their > > canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes. > > Interesting. Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner > or per launch? > > Thanks for the reply, > > Jackie > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** -- ______________________________________________________________________ Richard Culpeper E-mail: culpeper_at_tbaytel.net Website: http://www.tbaytel.net/culpeper "Hour after hour, day after day, far from sight of shore, We laughed and sang and slept under the hot sun on the northern ocean, Wanting never to return." -- Kimosippi '95 -- ______________________________________________________________________ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 5/26/00 10:38:01 PM !!!First Boot!!!, jackie_at_intelenet.net writes: << Interesting. Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner or per launch? >> I think that this would be part of the problem. Most states that I am familiar with have a per boat registration. So, how about this? You take a nice family vacation. You decide to take the canoe or kayak. You may have a state required registration and a local (city, county or other). You may have to purchase a state, county or local registration/ramp pass for each place that you decide to launch. Sound extreme? Maybe, but not impossible. Bruce McC WEO *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> -----Original Message----- > From: Jackie Fenton [mailto:jackie_at_intelenet.net] > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 2:32 PM snip > > Do you know if there is a fee for every boat or is there an annual > license for the owner? When I lived in Illinois it was a per boat fee. I confess to flaunting the law regarding my OC-1. But I did register both sea kayaks and was checked occasionally by the Coast Guard when out paddling. I could never figure that one out - I didn't know that the Coasties could enforce State law. Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> Minnesota gets a fair amount of revenue from out of staters who bring their > canoes into state to use the 10,000 lakes. Here are a few more points about the Minnesota registration law. there are both plusses and minuses to the way it's set up. The registration is $7 for three years for canoes and touring kayaks; however, there is currently an added $5 fee for all watercraft to fund the Eurasian Milfoil (a nuisance waterplant spread by powerboat props) cleanup and enforcement efforts. The $7 portion goes to a dedicated fund that has actually resulted over the years in a several thousand-mile network of access points and primitive campsites on over a dozen of the state's non-technical rivers. Excellent maps of these routes are available from the Minnesota DNR. These are a very underutilized resource and an excellent alternative to the crowded BWCA canoe wilderness for those who can figure out how to do a shuttle. The funding also provides for a staff person who has put in many hours of work on the Lake Superior Water Trail of Minnesota, a 150-mile section of the Lake Superior coastline. Unfortunately, the law also requires that watercraft not registered by other jurisdictions must obtain a Minnesota license before being used in the state- and this includes the BWCA and the Lake Superior Water Trail. Many irate out-of state visitors have run into trouble because of overzealous enforcement of this provision. Recently, the DNR has made it much easier to obtain the licenses from local parks, etc. but it still has a negative impact on our tourism image. The bottom line: if you can't prevent your state or province from licensing paddlecraft, make sure the money goes into a dedicated fund. -Andy Knapp Minneapolis Homebound on a dreary Memorial weekend *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
In a message dated 05/26/2000 6:38:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jackie_at_intelenet.net writes: << Wondering the same question... is it per boat or per owner or per launch? >> OH, NO!!!! Us multiple boat owners are going to be in deep doo-doo! Sandy Kramer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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