I have not been able to sort out the specifics, by state, of registration which have been reported here so far, but I am curious what the pattern is. If folks respond re: what their state does, I will make a summary and report back on my findings. A. Does anyone know which states **require** registration of paddlecraft (aka sea kayaks and canoes). B. For those states which **do** require registration: 1. How much is the annual fee? 2. What is the "return" for registration? IOW, does the state devote some funds to paddlecraft launching sites or marine trails or somesuch? Or, is there no clear return? (Note: the claim which I think one state makes that registration makes it more likely a stolen craft will be returned is bogus: those numbers can be removed easily. The boat ID number is a better ID, and on my yaks, removing the number requires damaging the surface of the yak -- a clear indication of a stolen boat.) -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > A. which states **require** registration of paddlecraft (aka > sea kayaks and canoes). Oregon: no registration. > 2. What is the "return" for registration? IOW, does the state devote some > funds to paddlecraft launching sites or marine trails or somesuch? Or, is > there no clear return? Some state funds in Oregon support shoreside camping and floats shared with other users. From the State Marine Board, I believe. These funds come from registration (and fuel tax, also, I believe) of power boats. We benefit, but do not pay. -- Dave Kruger Astoria, OR *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > I have not been able to sort out the specifics, by state, of registration which > have been reported here so far, but I am curious what the pattern is. If folks > respond re: what their state does, I will make a summary and report back on my > findings. > New Hampshire does not require registration for non motorized craft, except sailboats over a certain length (I think 14 feet, but don't quote me on that). As a side note, any state that has a Coast Guard type of registration must allow boats from other states with the same type of registration to use their waters. There is a time restriction, though. I believe that you can for up to 60 days, after that the boat is considered a resident. The odd thing is that the boat is registered in the state of most frequent use, not the state of the owner. I bought a boat off of a New Hampshire couple who registered the boat in Maine because that was where their summer camp was. But they could use the boat in New Hampshire when they wanted. At least that is the way it was explained to me when New Hampshire finally adopted Coast Guard style registration. Mike -- Paddling along through fog so thick that only one's thoughts are visible, your reverie is abruptly shattered by the ancient cry of a great blue heron as she lifts uncertainly from the brilliant blue of a mussel-shell beach witnessed only by the brooding, wet spruce....your passage home seems as much back through time as it does through space. Mark H Hunt *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I'm considering buying a new sea kayak in Ontario, and bringing it back to the US. I have no idea of what's involved with customs, duty, taxes, paperwork, or any of that. Can anyone give me an overview, point me to a website, or otherwise let me know what I'd be getting myself in for? -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:37 AM 5/27/00, Wes Boyd wrote: >I'm considering buying a new sea kayak in Ontario, and bringing it back to >the US. I have no idea of what's involved with customs, duty, taxes, >paperwork, or any of that. Can anyone give me an overview, point me to a >website, or otherwise let me know what I'd be getting myself in for? *************************************************************************** For the sake of general information to Paddlewisers, I thought I would provisionally answer my own question, thanks to some e-mails, a little netsurfing, and phone conversations with the US Customs service. Buying a Canadian built boat in Canada seems to have some cost benefits for those of us close enough to the border to make it worthwhile. After you take the currency conversion rates into consideration, list prices that I've been able to find on Canadian-built boats seem to be 10 to 20 percent less than the list prices listed in the Canoe and Kayak 2000 buyers guide. For example, one particular boat I'm interested in apparently lists for $3295 CDN in Canada, or roughly $2190 US. Canoe and Kayak lists that particular boat at $2495 US in the US. (When I looked over the weekend, the conversion rate was 66.4 cents on the dollar, IIRC.) Obviously, this is going to vary with the boat, the dealer, and so forth. It's especially interesting in that the nearest US dealer for that boat is more than twice as far away than the nearest Canadian one. According to a conversation that I had with a Customs inspector in Detroit, if a boat built in Canada is brought across the border by a private individual, there is no duty, thanks to NAFTA. You do, however, have to be able to point to somewhere on the boat, or paperwork, that indicates that the boat is actually built in Canada. If the actual point of construction of the boat is some other country, you may have to pay up to 10% duty on the first $1000 of the value of the boat in US dollars, and 2.7% after that. The actual duty depends on the country of origin. The inspector that I talked to suggests that if you think that there's ever the possibility that you're going to take the boat back into Canada, say, on a trip, it's worthwhile to get a duplicate bill of sale at the port of entry, and have it stamped that the boat has passed customs. The other complication is sales tax. A combination of provincial and federal sales taxes comes to 15% of the value of the purchase. However, when you cross the border, you can pick up a form that's submitted to the Canadian government to refund the sales tax. The above is my understanding of the situation from research, not from actual experience. However, the first time I get a chance, I'm heading north of the border to try out some boats. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wote in regard to buying a kayak in Canada: > The other complication is sales tax. A combination of provincial and > federal sales taxes comes to 15% of the value of the purchase. However, > when you cross the border, you can pick up a form that's submitted to the > Canadian government to refund the sales tax. Hi Wes, The 15% sales tax is a combination of 7% Goods and Services Tax ( GST ) and 8% Ontario Provincial Sales Tax ( PST). I believe you can only have the 7% GST refunded by the government not the 8% PST. I know that is a fact with the provincial sales tax in British Columbia ( from years in retail selling to American tourists ). The Ontario PST mat be different but I don't think so. With the exchange rate the way it is it is still probably cheaper to buy in Canada. Andrew Jones ______________________________ Kingfisher Wilderness Adventures Ltd. North Vancouver, BC, Canada www.kingfisher-adventures.com ______________________________ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:49 PM 5/31/00 -0700, Kingfisher Wilderness Adventures Ltd wrote: >I believe you can only have the 7% GST refunded by the government not the 8% >PST. I know that is a fact with the provincial sales tax in British Columbia >( from years in retail selling to American tourists ). The Ontario PST mat >be different but I don't think so. With the exchange rate the way it is it >is still probably cheaper to buy in Canada. > You're probably right. I was so focused on the duty question that I only gave a lick and a promise to the tax question so I could easily have missed something. You're right, it still appears to be a deal worth the drive. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
You can only claim back the gst. wendy ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Kingfisher Wilderness Adventures Ltd" <kingfshr_at_idmail.com> To: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net>, "Wes Boyd" <boydwe_at_dmci.net> Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Run for the border Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 22:49:38 -0700 Wes Boyd wote in regard to buying a kayak in Canada: > The other complication is sales tax. A combination of provincial and > federal sales taxes comes to 15% of the value of the purchase. However, > when you cross the border, you can pick up a form that's submitted to the > Canadian government to refund the sales tax. Hi Wes, The 15% sales tax is a combination of 7% Goods and Services Tax ( GST ) and 8% Ontario Provincial Sales Tax ( PST). I believe you can only have the 7% GST refunded by the government not the 8% PST. I know that is a fact with the provincial sales tax in British Columbia ( from years in retail selling to American tourists ). The Ontario PST mat be different but I don't think so. With the exchange rate the way it is it is still probably cheaper to buy in Canada. Andrew Jones ______________________________ Kingfisher Wilderness Adventures Ltd. North Vancouver, BC, Canada www.kingfisher-adventures.com ______________________________ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ *************************************************************************** ________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Kingfisher Wilderness Adventures Ltd wrote: > > The 15% sales tax is a combination of 7% Goods and Services Tax ( GST ) and > 8% Ontario Provincial Sales Tax ( PST). > > I believe you can only have the 7% GST refunded by the government not the 8% > PST. ... Any good Canadian kayak retailer that does a significant amount of business with U.S. customers can arrange it so that you can legally avoid both the GST and the PST. If your retailer says otherwise, go elsewhere. I have purchased a number of boats from Canadian retailers, and have never paid GST or PST. Also, you should not be shy about negotiating over price (although this is not always successful--it helps if they have the boat in stock). While the savings vary, I have saved as much as 34% relative to the U.S. list price. The price differential seems to have declined a bit in the last couple of years. Dan Hagen Bellingham, Washington *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Hi Wes, You wrote (in regards to purchasing a kayak in Canada): "The other complication is sales tax. A combination of provincial and federal sales taxes comes to 15% of the value of the purchase. However, when you cross the border, you can pick up a form that's submitted to the Canadian government to refund the sales tax." You'd better check to see if it's all the sales tax that can be refunded or just the GST, i.e., the federal tax. I believe it's this 7% federal portion that is refundable, but I could be wrong. Mary Murphy Malcolm Island Inn Sointula, BC Canada > *************************************************************************** *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 06:22 AM 6/1/00 -0700, malisle wrote: > >You'd better check to see if it's all the sales tax that can be refunded or just >the GST, i.e., the federal tax. I believe it's this 7% federal portion that is >refundable, but I could be wrong. Another thing I discovered this morning is fees for conversion between US and Canadian funds -- one local bank charges 20%!!! (Needless to say, I did not avail myself of their services . . .) A credit card company I just got checking with charges 1%. That's do-able, I guess . . . beats twenty percent. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
I believe there are agencies that do it for no fee at all. I'd check with the travel bureaus. I've changed various currencies for no fee, although haven't dealt with Canadian. Mark >Another thing I discovered this morning is fees for conversion between US >and Canadian funds -- one local bank charges 20%!!! (Needless to say, I did >not avail myself of their services . . .) A credit card company I just got >checking with charges 1%. That's do-able, I guess . . . beats twenty percent. > >-- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
AND if you belong to AAA they will provide you with both "foreign" cash and travelers checks in the foreign currency. FREE. ( we just picked up Canadian Travelers checks, and British T/C's and British pounds from the local AAA office in greater Baltimore. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wes Boyd" <boydwe_at_dmci.net> To: "malisle" <malisle_at_island.net> Cc: "PaddleWise" <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net> Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2000 1:02 PM Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Run for the border > At 06:22 AM 6/1/00 -0700, malisle wrote: > > > > >You'd better check to see if it's all the sales tax that can be refunded > or just > >the GST, i.e., the federal tax. I believe it's this 7% federal portion > that is > >refundable, but I could be wrong. > > Another thing I discovered this morning is fees for conversion between US > and Canadian funds -- one local bank charges 20%!!! (Needless to say, I did > not avail myself of their services . . .) A credit card company I just got > checking with charges 1%. That's do-able, I guess . . . beats twenty percent. > > -- Wes > > *************************************************************************** > PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not > to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission > Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net > Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net > Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ > *************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Wes Boyd wrote: > At 06:22 AM 6/1/00 -0700, malisle wrote: > > > > >You'd better check to see if it's all the sales tax that can be refunded > or just > >the GST, i.e., the federal tax. I believe it's this 7% federal portion > that is > >refundable, but I could be wrong. > At one time Ontario sales tax was refundable; I thought it still was (it was considered good for tourism). Wendy says it ain't so I'd suggest it's worth double checking. > > Another thing I discovered this morning is fees for conversion between US > and Canadian funds -- one local bank charges 20%!!! (Needless to say, I did > not avail myself of their services . . .) A credit card company I just got > checking with charges 1%. That's do-able, I guess . . . beats twenty percent. If you don't want to use the credit card, exchange your money in Canada. I'll never understand the difference between US and Canadian banks on currency exchange. Here we can get US credit cards, US bank accounts, exchange money in just about any big city bank within driving range of the US border. We cash US cheques (checks?) with ease. In the US, you get hassles on exchange, usurious (word?) exchange rates, long waits and hassles on cashing Canadian cheques etc. I've always thought it odd that the Canadian companies (at least one that I know of) would have such a big difference between what they charge here versus the US. I would have though some near-border US vendor would cry foul and bring in the NAFTA police. I can't see someone in, say, Detroit, beating the price of the same kayak in Windsor and being able to stay in business. Mike *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 08:36 PM 6/1/00 -0400, Michael Daly wrote: > >At one time Ontario sales tax was refundable; I thought it still was (it was >considered good for tourism). Wendy says it ain't so I'd suggest it's >worth double checking. I got the impression from a couple people that it was, but no one that I can recall came out and said it and I was really more concerned with another issue at the time. We'll know for sure soon. >> Another thing I discovered this morning is fees for conversion between US >> and Canadian funds -- one local bank charges 20%!!! (Needless to say, I did >> not avail myself of their services . . .) A credit card company I just got >> checking with charges 1%. That's do-able, I guess . . . beats twenty percent. > >If you don't want to use the credit card, exchange your money in Canada. We've switched credit cards around a bit recently, looking for a lower rate. A credit card we haven't used for a while has a 0% fee. Guess which one I'm taking? >I'll never understand the difference between US and Canadian banks on currency >exchange. Here we can get US credit cards, US bank accounts, exchange money >in just about any big city bank within driving range of the US border. We cash >US cheques (checks?) with ease. In the US, you get hassles on exchange, usurious >(word?) exchange rates, long waits and hassles on cashing Canadian cheques etc. It sounds like an easy rip-off to me. The 20% bank would have gotten me if I hadn't been paying attention. The bank manager explained that the exchange rates are better closer to the border; we're 100 miles from it. But still, darn it, you're right. Nationocentricism, or something like that, I guess. Well, unless something untoward happens, I'm off for the border at oh-dark-thirty Saturday. Wish me luck. I don't know if I'm coming back with a kayak, but I should have my ducks pretty well in a row if I do. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Daly wrote: > > At one time Ontario sales tax was refundable; I thought it still was (it was > considered good for tourism). Wendy says it ain't so I'd suggest it's > worth double checking. This misses the point. If the retailer knows what they are doing you will not have to pay the taxes in the first place--there is nothing to refund. The idea is to take delivery at the border, in which case you do not pay GST or PST. This is "standard operating procedure" for competent retailers who sell lots of boats to U.S. customers (unless things have changed very recently). Dan Hagen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Michael Daly wrote: > > I've always thought it odd that the Canadian companies (at least one that I know > of) would have such a big difference between what they charge here versus the > US. I would have though some near-border US vendor would cry foul and bring > in the NAFTA police. A Canadian company charging a higher price for its product in the U.S. does not violate NAFTA, or any other of our trade laws. On the other hand, if Canadian manufacturers were to charge *less* in the U.S. (than in Canada), that *would* be a violation of the anti-dumping provisions of our "fair trade" laws. If this were to occur (or appear to occur), U.S. kayak manufacturers could file a complaint, possibly resulting in anti-dumping duties being imposed on Canadian kayaks. Our trade laws are designed to encourage foreign manufacturers to charge more for products in the U.S. than in their own markets. Of course such laws do not protect U.S. consumers (who end up paying higher prices), but rather protect U.S. producers from "unfair" foreign competition. Our abuse of fair-trade laws is an ongoing point of contention in trade talks between the U.S. and our trading partners. eol Dan Hagen *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
At 10:39 PM 5/26/00 -0700, Dave Kruger wrote: > >A. Does anyone know which states **require** registration of paddlecraft (aka >sea kayaks and canoes). Ohio requires registration. Michigan and Indiana do not. >B. For those states which **do** require registration: > 1. How much is the annual fee? > 2. What is the "return" for registration? IOW, does the state devote some >funds to paddlecraft launching sites or marine trails or somesuch? Or, is >there no clear return? Afraid I can't answer that -- I don't live in Ohio. >(Note: the claim which I think one state makes that registration makes it more >likely a stolen craft will be returned is bogus: those numbers can be removed >easily. The boat ID number is a better ID, and on my yaks, removing the >number requires damaging the surface of the yak -- a clear indication of a >stolen boat.) While sitting here waiting for a guy to come and pick up a sailboat I just sold him, with all the paperwork at my elbow, I do have to reflect that the boat ID numbers, which appear on the title and registration, do give some layer of protection against theft, especially on boats as light and easily carryable as kayaks are. While I'm opposed to state registration of kayaks, and 3 inch numbers on the bow and all that, I must admit that there's a little doubt floating around in my skull right now. -- Wes *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> A. Does anyone know which states **require** registration of paddlecraft (aka > sea kayaks and canoes). > Unless they've changed it on me, California requires registration on all non-motorized craft 8' or longer. I have a 7' 10" sailing pram which exempts it from registration though the outboard rudder may put it over the edge, legally. I never registered it, don't intend to do so, nor have I registered my 17' kayak. I've been "inspected" by the CG once each in both craft and the issue never came up, so apparently they don't enforce this. The issuing agency is the California DMV, I think the fee was $54 for annual registration, and they send you particularly ugly stickers to put on your bow. No idea where the fees go to, though I think I've heard that line about recovering stolen boats. Stickers can be removed by thiefs, but for my serial number on the kayak to be erased or ground out, would be pretty obvious to any investigator. OTOH, I don't know whether Perception/Aquaterria or the dealer I bought the kayak from keeps serial numbers on record. -Nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Nick, California requires registration for _powered_ craft of any size. My 17' canoe and kayak do not have any propulsion devices attached so they are exempt. Technically, when one attaches a motor to a canoe it requires registration though there isn't much enforcement for electrics. jerry. At 07:43 AM 05/27/2000 -0700, Nick Von Robison wrote: >> A. Does anyone know which states **require** registration of paddlecraft (aka >> sea kayaks and canoes). >> > >Unless they've changed it on me, California requires registration on all non-motorized >craft 8' or longer. I have a 7' 10" sailing pram which exempts it from registration >though the outboard rudder may put it over the edge, legally. I never registered it, >don't intend to do so, nor have I registered my 17' kayak. I've been "inspected" by >the CG once each in both craft and the issue never came up, so apparently they don't >enforce this. The issuing agency is the California DMV, I think the fee was $54 for >annual registration, and they send you particularly ugly stickers to put on your bow. >No idea where the fees go to, though I think I've heard that line about recovering >stolen boats. Stickers can be removed by thiefs, but for my serial number on the >kayak to be erased or ground out, would be pretty obvious to any investigator. OTOH, >I don't know whether Perception/Aquaterria or the dealer I bought the kayak from keeps >serial numbers on record. > >-Nick > > >*************************************************************************** >PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not >to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission >Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net >Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net >Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ >*************************************************************************** > *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
> A. Does anyone know which states **require** registration of paddlecraft (aka > sea kayaks and canoes). Alaska didn't use to require it, but the Legislature passed a bill requiring it in the legislative session that ended just a couple of weeks ago. > > B. For those states which **do** require registration: > > 1. How much is the annual fee? $10 per boat for a three year period. Boats under 10 feet are exempt. Motorized craft are $24 for a three year period. > > 2. What is the "return" for registration? IOW, does the state devote some > funds to paddlecraft launching sites or marine trails or somesuch? Or, is > there no clear return? There is no clear direct return stipulated in the legislation, but there is a phrase in the bill that makes me wonder if the underlying reason for the bill is to get more federal money - Paragraph 1 line 7 - "at least 75 percent of any federal funds generated as a result of this Act be used to fund a statewide boating safety and education program,..." The url for any fellow Alaskans interested is: http://www.dnr.state.ak.us/parks/boating/hb0108g.pdf Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Nick Von Robison wrote: } Subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Registration Fees for Paddlecraft > > > > A. Does anyone know which states **require** registration of > > paddlecraft (aka sea kayaks and canoes). > > Unless they've changed it on me, California requires registration on > all non-motorized craft 8' or longer. Nope, never has. California requires registration of *sail-powered* vessels over 8 feet, not all non-motorized craft. Paddle and oar powered canoes & kayaks are specifically exempt from registration Sailing kayaks would appear to require registration, however. > I have a 7' 10" sailing pram which exempts it from registration > though the outboard rudder may put it over the edge, legally. I > never registered it, don't intend to do so, nor have I registered my > 17' kayak. I've been "inspected" by the CG once each in both craft > and the issue never came up, so apparently they don't enforce this. It wasn't enforced because you were exempt in both cases. See http://www.dmv.ca.gov/faq/boatfaq.htm for infomation about California boat registration. A quote from that page: The following do not have to be registered in California: * Vessels propelled solely by oars or paddles. * Sailboats that are eight feet or less in length. * Non-motorized surfboards propelled by a sail and with a mast that must be held upright by the operator. * A ship's lifeboat (A dinghy is not a lifeboat.) * Vessels currently and lawfully numbered by another state that are principally used outside California. * Vessels brought into California for racing purposes only (Exempted only during races and tune-ups.) -- Bob Myers FirstWorld Communications, Inc. Email: bob.myers_at_firstworld.com 18101 Von Karman Avenue, Suite 550 Phone: 949-851-8250 x227 Irvine, CA 92612 Fax: 949-851-1088 http://www.firstworld.com/ *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Kruger wrote: > I have not been able to sort out the specifics, by state, of registration which > have been reported here so far, but I am curious what the pattern is. If folks > respond re: what their state does, I will make a summary and report back on my > findings. > > A. Does anyone know which states **require** registration of paddlecraft (aka > sea kayaks and canoes). > > B. For those states which **do** require registration: > > 1. How much is the annual fee? > > 2. What is the "return" for registration? IOW, does the state devote some > funds to paddlecraft launching sites or marine trails or somesuch? Or, is > there no clear return? > The main reason that boating registration is so attractive to state governments is that states obtain Federal funding based on the number of registered boats within the state. Depending on how enlightened the state agencies are, this can be real positive for paddlers - as Andy Knapp reports in Minnesota - or a real negative - if the increased funding is put into the state coffers as general revenue to be used to fund DNR programs, as is the case in Illinois. The Illinois DNR claims that it has made these funds available for HPW launch sites, but the way that the program works in Illinois is that some governmental entity (city, county, park district, etc.) must request funding, which is granted on a percentage basis. Unless paddlers can interest a governmental body in requesting these funds - and spending some of the local government money - the funds remain invisible to paddling clubs. Another income source for the state is that the registration law also makes it possible to enforce the payment of sales tax. Principles aside, the boat registration cost is really minimal - in Illinois it's $13 for a first-time registration, which is for a three-year period, and then $6 for subsequent three-year registrations. The fine for not registering your boat is $75, so it really doesn't pay to protest the registration law by not paying. Another big problem area is in registering home-built boats, or boats that have no serial numbers. I've heard stories of the registration process being drawn out to great lengths in such cases. Although I live in Indiana where boats don't have to be registered, I was president of the Chicago Whitewater Association when the Illinois boat registration law was passed, and was an active participant in fighting the Illinois boat registration law. Copied below is a summary of what happened in Illinois. (The account below was written as part of an exchange I had with an Alaskan whitewater paddler who posted on r.b.p. asking about boat registration - apparently the Alaskan legislature last year was considering the introduction of a "Boating Safety Law", which Dave Seng reported was recently passed.) My hope is that this information will be of some use to fellow boaters living in states where boat registration is being considered. ~~~~~~~~~~~ Begin Account of Illinois Boat Registration: The paddling community in Illinois found out about the requirement to register human powered watercraft (HPW) *after* the law was enacted. The DNR (Dept of Natural Resources) responded to a rash of power boating accidents in a popular boating area (The Chain of Lakes in northeastern IL) by rewriting the Boat Registration and Safety Act law to increase the penalties for operating a power boat while drunk. The provisions to require HPW registration were an afterthought, and were included without any input whatsoever by the paddling community, although the DNR says it made 'every effort possible' to involve the paddling community. These new requirements prompted a sense of outrage, which was the catalyst that brought together the coalition of paddling clubs to fight this law. Our major points were that: a) the passage of a law without input of the group that it affects amounts to 'taxation without representation' b) that the income from the newly enacted provisions was not being returned to paddling community in the form of new access sites or other programs beneficial to paddlers c) that the expected income from the program would not cover the administrative expenses. We found sympathetic legislators who introduced virtually identical bills in the House and the Senate for exempting HPW from the boat registration requirements, and also found a lobbyist that hoped to position himself as the spokesperson of the paddling community (and so worked for little to no $). We published articles in all the paddling club newsletters asking that boaters write letters to their legislators, the DNR, and the local newspapers. Paddlers drove to the State capitol more than once to testify at legislative committee hearings and to meet with DNR officials, and we met with the House and Senate Majority leaders. In one of the meetings with the DNR, we proposed to the DNR that IF they would provide an accounting of monies generated from HPW registrations, and would agree to fund paddling-specific programs, we would cease and desist in our opposition of this law - but our pleas fell on deaf ears. Instead, the DNR introduced two bills into the legislature in an effort to sidetrack the momentum that building for the paddler-friendly bills. In the end, four bills were introduce into the legislature - two by the paddling community to repeal the HPW registration requirements, and two by the DNR in an attempt to provide some concessions while still requiring boat registration. The concession were for exempting non-profits (scouts, church camps, etc.) from registration, and doing away with the requirement to display 3 inch numbers on HPW. One of the paddler bills was killed in committee, but the other one made it through the House and the Senate (by 90+%votes), largely on the virtues of the 'taxation without representation' argument, as well as the argument/question of "What's next? Registration of bicycles?" After making it through the House and the Senate with overwhelming votes, the Governor vetoed the bill. The attempt to override the veto garnered only a 40% vote (60% was needed to override) - no doubt the result of some heavy duty lobbying/politicking on the part of the DNR. See http://131.230.57.1/stat_rul/ILLREG.HTM for the text of the Illinois Boating Safety Law Hope this helps, Erik Sprenne *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
>A. Does anyone know which states **require** registration of paddlecraft (aka >sea kayaks and canoes). In Pennsylvania, you need to register your boat to use state park waters or fish commission landings or lakes. Otherwise, registration isn't required for non-powered boats. For tourists, it still sounds like you need to have a registered boat to use these facilities, but if the boat is registered in another state, PA honors that registration. >B. For those states which **do** require registration: > > 1. How much is the annual fee? State Park registration: $10 per year Fish & Boat Commission registration: $10 every two years. In addition, they attempt to collect sales tax (6%) on boats purchased from an out-of-state dealer. If you bought the boat from an individual, they do not attempt to collect sales tax unless the boat can accept a motor. > 2. What is the "return" for registration? IOW, does the state > devote some >funds to paddlecraft launching sites or marine trails or somesuch? Or, is >there no clear return? On many of the big rivers, there are few launch facilities that are not owned or run by the fish commission. They tend to be the most convenient facilities and offer a fairly safe place to leave your car. For non-motorized craft, the park registration offers an alternative to the state registration covering only state park lakes but there is no tax collection associated with it. Glenn Stauffer *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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