Dear Paddlewiser's, Not to cast aspersions on anyone's technique (because I know there are many paddlers on this list with far greater skills than I may ever hope to achieve - and I mean that quite seriously), but can anyone really claim to have a "bombproof" roll? I came to sea kayaking from a whitewater paddling background and must say that while I've paddled with some VERY good paddlers I've never met anyone who had never taken a swim. In the large part many (most?) sea kayakers may never encounter the same types of violent, unpredictable forces that WW can produce, but I'm still somewhat skeptical of this whole concept of, "my roll's so reliable that I'll never have to swim". I'm not trying to challenge anyone, but rather asking folks to really evaluate the concept and their skills. I've been thrashed, trashed, chewed on, and fortunately spit up, by waters that had the capacity to kill me. Blind faith in my skills would have resulted in exactly that end. I guess what I'm trying to remind folks of is that faith in one's skills may (and should be!) a great source of confidence, but to also remember that the forces of nature, in the end, can many times far surpass man's skills. There's a quote in the front of Derek Hutchinson's book, "The Complete Book of Sea Kayaking" that goes like this, "A man who is not afraid of the sea will soon be drowned, he said, for he will be going out on a day he shouldn't. But we do be afraid of the sea, and we do only be drowned now and again." - original quote from John Millington Synge - "The Aran Islands" It's very important to be able to self rescue in a wide range of conditions (and I'm a firm believer in the concept of self rescue being the first, best, and only truly reliable rescue) but don't put all your eggs in the "I can roll" basket..... Paddle Wisely My Friends, Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Well put, Dave. I remember a friend's incident a few winters back. He's also a WW paddler (1st & foremost), rodeo playboater really, who rolls WERE "bombproof" - on and offside. With water temp. about 40 and air temp. around 50, he came paddling with our group dressed in a shorty (or farmer john) wetsuit. Pushed against the ~20 kt. wind down to a play area that was kicking up, wore ourselves out (least I did :-), and surfed back up the shore as the wind and waves picked up. Our group was in a very loose spread with him about 25~50 yds. in front of me at the back end of the group (I was sweep that day). Whether he got sloppy or just fell asleep at the helm, he caught something wrong and capsized. I watched him set up for a roll on his good side, down wind as his capsized boat turned to broach the wind / waves. As soon as he went for the hip flick, the paddle shaft went vertical and back over he went (C2C, I think). Good pause before the next attempt - same side. Same vertical shaft and failed roll (Sweep Roll, I think). Another pause. His last roll attempt (as I reached him) was an extended pawlata (same side again) with the same results. With my reaching him on the upwind side and his rolls being on the down wind side, he didn't know I was there for a bow rescue and popped out of his boat. Surprisingly, he was a lot more frustrated with three consecutive blown rolls than he was cold (guess you WW paddlers already have ice in your veins). Helped clear his boat and got him back in it as the other paddlers arrived and everything worked out. His problem had been that his broached boat was being blown over the paddle with more force than he could apply downwards to execute the roll. I kind of doubt that even Doug Lloyd or Matt Broze could have pulled off the down wind rolls he was trying that day. Lesson #1 - Can't roll up on one side due to the forces working against you? Switch sides and make the conditions work for you. He could have possibly hand rolled his way back up on his off, but up wind side _that_ day. Best example I know to have an offside roll, even a sloppy one ;-) Lesson #2 - There's no such thing as a 100% BOMBPROOF roll So have a good Reentry & Roll in the repertoire and always approach the sea with respect before it teaches you humility Vince mid Atlantic storm paddler who hasn't gone for an unintentional swim yet Dave Seng wrote: > <snip> > It's very important to be able to self rescue in a wide range of > conditions (and I'm a firm believer in the concept of self rescue being > the first, best, and only truly reliable rescue) but don't put all your > eggs in the "I can roll" basket..... > > Paddle Wisely My Friends, > Dave Seng > Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Dave Seng wrote: > Not to cast aspersions on anyone's technique (because I know there are > many paddlers on this list with far greater skills than I may ever hope > to achieve - and I mean that quite seriously), but can anyone really > claim to have a "bombproof" roll? Hi Dave, what brought all this on anyway? Miss a roll this morning? My rolls are about as bomb proof as my speaking Spanish -- OK when I can think about it but don't run off a bunch of Spanish at me really fast and expect a quick reply. IOW, my roll is bomb proof when I'm set up and prepared for it but if I'm cloud gazing and a rogue wave rolls me I wouldn't bet on it. I'm just not at that stage where it's second nature and I'm not sure if I ever want it to be as I'll keep other options open in the self rescue arsenal. I kind of like the anxiety of knowing my roll is "bomb proof" within certain parameters but not within others. No, I don't count on it completely. Not, Nicolgiaqe! -Nick *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Nick Von Robison wrote: > Hi Dave, what brought all this on anyway? What actually brought on that low-grade rant was the use of the term by both myself and Jed. Or....maybe it was just frustration at the end of a long unsuccessful day at work - looking out the window at clear skies and balmy 67F temps and wanting to be in my kayak. Summer arrived in Juneau yesterday! Dave Seng Juneau, Alaska *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
Doug Lloyd wrote, referring to an earlier post from Matt Broze: >Oh heck, snip what he said. Matt's recent point about the Reenter and >Roll vs the Paddle Float was right on. Probably the Ozzies do so well >with the R&R because of the wide use of electric pumps. What about skirt >reattachment, someone might ask, as far as those down-under guys who >come back up so easy with the R&R...well, Mr Carter's answer is to be >able to paddle a boat partially swamped without the skirt reattached >after the self rescue... I agree with Matt too. Whatever rescue method you use, a minimum volume cockpit and a hands free pump allow you to concentrate on paddling, even with a completely swamped cockpit, not fiddle about with spraycovers, etc., etc. (I know of some Aus paddlers who don't use spraycovers at all. There are times when I use one only to prevent sunburn.) I think some manufacturers ought to think about how their boats behave when swamped: are they easily controlled, or are paddlers at the mercy of free surface effects? The sea sock that some have been describing is one way to do it for the folding boats, although as some have posted, they can be uncomfortable. For the others, bulkheads closely spaced, and buoyancy material in any unused space, especially along the sides. The less the volume, the less the water, the less the effect on stability, the less to pump... >... Sorry Peter Carter, but we do like our Paddle Floats up here. I had noticed. Idle thought: Would a kayak be more stable with a ballasted keel than an outrigger float? After all, deep keel yachts are self righting, multihulls are not. Cheers, Peter pcarter_at_acslink.net.au allegedly <www.acslink.net.au/~pcarter> temporarily <users.senet.com.au/~pcarter> 34deg 55' 24.1" S 138deg 32' 9.8" E (GDA-94) *************************************************************************** PaddleWise Paddling Mailing List - All postings copyright the author and not to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission Submissions: paddlewise_at_lists.intelenet.net Subscriptions: paddlewise-request_at_lists.intelenet.net Website: http://www.paddlewise.net/ ***************************************************************************
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