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From: Bob Klemick <klemick_at_home.com>
subject: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 14:36:11 -0500
For the first time in my limited paddling endeavors I came across water
as smooth as glass. First, it was momentarily disorientating going from
a rippling effect to glass, but even more disturbing, it felt like I was
paddling through jello and it seemed I slowed quite a bit. For you
hydrologists out there was it my imagination or did the situation become
more sluggish. It seems rougher water is faster or gives the illusion of
being faster. Thoughts anyone??...............bob klemick


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From: Whyte, David <DHW_at_Mail.amsa.gov.au>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 09:41:14 +1000
Yes I have felt that affect when paddling on completely smooth water and
feeling like I am going slower and would be interested to know if its an
illusion or real. I was wondering if the smooth water has more suction. I
know sea planes often can't take off in dead flat water and they taxi around
for a while causing waves otherwise the suction on their floats makes it
difficult to leave the water.

David
Canberra, Australia

> -----Original Message-----
> From:	Bob Klemick [SMTP:klemick_at_home.com]
> Sent:	Monday, 19 June 2000 5:36
> To:	Paddlewise
> Subject:	[Paddlewise] Glassy water
> 
> For the first time in my limited paddling endeavors I came across water
> as smooth as glass. First, it was momentarily disorientating going from
> a rippling effect to glass, but even more disturbing, it felt like I was
> paddling through jello and it seemed I slowed quite a bit. For you
> hydrologists out there was it my imagination or did the situation become
> more sluggish. It seems rougher water is faster or gives the illusion of
> being faster. Thoughts anyone??...............bob klemick
> 
> 
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From: Pete Cresswell <">
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 20:12:26 -0400
RE/
> It seems rougher water is faster or gives the illusion of
>being faster. Thoughts anyone??

I'd put my money on the "illusion" theory.

I paddle my surf ski with near-religious devotion to the speedometer's
instantaneous and average speed readouts and my experience has been that glassy
water is the fastest (except, of course, almost any water with a tailwind and/or
following swell...)

Dunno why...but it could very well be that it's simply the same reason it's
glassy: no wind.....

I also find that my perception of speed varies widely form indicated speed -
especially in the ocean.    When I'm so far from a stationary reference point
sometimes it seems like I'm crawling along even though the speedo is reading
fairly high....this can be aggravated by a following chop....for want of any
other reference point, I fixate on the individual chops which, of course, I'm
not moving very fast relative to...
-----------------------
Pete Cresswell
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From: Michael Daly <michaeldaly_at_home.com>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:50:39 -0400
Bob Klemick wrote:

> For the first time in my limited paddling endeavors I came across water
> as smooth as glass. First, it was momentarily disorientating going from
> a rippling effect to glass, but even more disturbing, it felt like I was
> paddling through jello and it seemed I slowed quite a bit. For you
> hydrologists out there was it my imagination or did the situation become
> more sluggish. It seems rougher water is faster or gives the illusion of
> being faster.

I think it's an illusion.  Like going into a breeze feels faster than going
with it.

The last time I experienced truly glassy water was when I was looking
for the wreck of the Waubuno in Massassauga Provincial Park.  I
drifted across clear water and saw the top of hull pass just inches below.
It was an amazing effect.  We spent about 45 minutes paddling back
and forth over the wreck (about 75 feet long, with the st'brd side of the
hull broken and scattered about 75 feet shoreward) with the only waves
the ones we made.  Awesome!  I really regretted not bringing my snorkeling
gear.

Mike

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From: John Winters <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 06:28:52 -0400
Bob wrote:


> For the first time in my limited paddling endeavors I came across water
> as smooth as glass. First, it was momentarily disorientating going from
> a rippling effect to glass, but even more disturbing, it felt like I was
> paddling through jello and it seemed I slowed quite a bit. For you
> hydrologists out there was it my imagination or did the situation become
> more sluggish. It seems rougher water is faster or gives the illusion of
> being faster. Thoughts anyone??...............bob klemick

Just an illusion. 

Cheers,

John Winters
Redwing Designs
Web site address http://home.ican.net/~735769

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From: Fernando López Arbarello <uktkayak_at_uol.com.ar>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 16:34:16 -0300
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Klemick <klemick_at_home.com>
To: Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Sunday, June 18, 2000 4:36 PM
Subject: [Paddlewise] Glassy water


> It seems rougher water is faster or gives the illusion of
> being faster. Thoughts anyone??...............bob klemick

Maybe illusion, maybe not. I find paddling in glassy water farther boring
than paddling in waves, and this affects my humor. But from my experience I
can also say that boat designs has a lot to do with it. My kayak ( Nordkapp
like ), is slow in flat water compared to many others, but when things turn
"choppy" I easily keep going and going while the rest remain fighting to
stay upright.

Best regards !

UNIÓN DE KAYAKISTAS DE TRAVESÍA
Fernando López Arbarello
uktkayak_at_uol.com.ar

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From: Jerry Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com>
subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 13:48:25 -0700
This risks wandering far afield from paddling, but many years ago I lived next door to unlimited hydroplane racer Bob Gilliam (Fascination, Hilton Hyperlube, Tri-City Sun et al).  He felt the fastest performance for the big boats was when the water had scattered whitecaps.  No whitecaps--sluggish race.  All whitecaps--quick & dangerous.  Of course, when those monstrosities were on the water, calm conditions didn't last long!  Interesting that paddlers and racing boat drivers can share a perception.  

(The race I remember best didn't involve Bob winning.  In the first qualifying heat he turned in an amazing performance, beating Budweiser and Bardahl.  In the second qualifier he kicked butt again.  Preparing for the final heat, a new guy was assigned to replace all the spark plugs.  The guy finished the job.  We watched on TV as Bob started the boat -- and it stalled.  When the time came to move the boats out he was still stalled.  Turns out the new guy had installed the spark plugs by hand, never tightened them, and put the wires on.  They all blew out, stripping the holes.  That never happens in a kayak race.  Never trust technology, or a new guy in the pits.)

jerry.




At 09:41 AM 06/19/2000 +1000, Whyte, David wrote:
>Yes I have felt that affect when paddling on completely smooth water and
>feeling like I am going slower and would be interested to know if its an
>illusion or real. I was wondering if the smooth water has more suction. I
>know sea planes often can't take off in dead flat water and they taxi around
>for a while causing waves otherwise the suction on their floats makes it
>difficult to leave the water.
>
>David
>Canberra, Australia
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From:	Bob Klemick [SMTP:klemick_at_home.com]
>> Sent:	Monday, 19 June 2000 5:36
>> To:	Paddlewise
>> Subject:	[Paddlewise] Glassy water
>> 
>> For the first time in my limited paddling endeavors I came across water
>> as smooth as glass. First, it was momentarily disorientating going from
>> a rippling effect to glass, but even more disturbing, it felt like I was
>> paddling through jello and it seemed I slowed quite a bit. For you
>> hydrologists out there was it my imagination or did the situation become
>> more sluggish. It seems rougher water is faster or gives the illusion of
>> being faster. Thoughts anyone??...............bob klemick
>> 
>> 
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>> not
>> to be reproduced outside PaddleWise without author's permission
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>
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From: John Winters <735769_at_ican.net>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 07:43:23 -0400
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com>
To: Whyte, David <DHW_at_Mail.amsa.gov.au>; 'Bob Klemick' <klemick_at_home.com>;
Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 4:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Glassy water


> This risks wandering far afield from paddling, but many years ago I lived
next door to unlimited hydroplane racer Bob Gilliam (Fascination, Hilton
Hyperlube, Tri-City Sun et al).  He felt the fastest performance for the big
boats was when the water had scattered whitecaps.  No whitecaps--sluggish
race.  All whitecaps--quick & dangerous.  Of course, when those
monstrosities were on the water, calm conditions didn't last long!
Interesting that paddlers and racing boat drivers can share a perception.
>
Hydroplanes do perform better when the surface has waves.
Hydroplanes, however, plane - kayaks do not.

Cheers,

John Winters
Redwing Designs
Web site address http://home.ican.net/~735769


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From: John Fereira <jaf30_at_cornell.edu>
subject: Re: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:21:48 -0400
At 07:43 AM 6/21/00 -0400, John Winters wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Jerry Hawkins <jhawkins_at_cisco.com>
>To: Whyte, David <DHW_at_Mail.amsa.gov.au>; 'Bob Klemick' <klemick_at_home.com>;
>Paddlewise <PaddleWise_at_lists.intelenet.net>
>Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2000 4:48 PM
>Subject: RE: [Paddlewise] Glassy water
>
>
>> This risks wandering far afield from paddling, but many years ago I lived
>next door to unlimited hydroplane racer Bob Gilliam (Fascination, Hilton
>Hyperlube, Tri-City Sun et al).  He felt the fastest performance for the big
>boats was when the water had scattered whitecaps.  No whitecaps--sluggish
>race.  All whitecaps--quick & dangerous.  Of course, when those
>monstrosities were on the water, calm conditions didn't last long!
>Interesting that paddlers and racing boat drivers can share a perception.
>>
>Hydroplanes do perform better when the surface has waves.
>Hydroplanes, however, plane - kayaks do not.

When I was a kid I used to go water skiing a lot in the San
Joaquin-Sacramento river delta.  The delta consists of miles and miles of
"sloughs", from just a few feet wide to several hundred feet.  Because the
waterways are narrow boat wakes disappear quickly into the shores and quite
often there is little wind.  Quite often we'd head down a slough and the
water would be like glass.  When encountering such a patch of water I'd
usually really let it hang out, sometimes turning so sharply that my elbow
would go in the water.  Inevitably, I would have some fairly spectacular
crashes.  Whenever that happened on glassy water we usually joked about
"hitting a slick spot".  I don't know if the glassy water made it slippier
or not but I definately had my share of falls on it.
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